How does fibre work?

86JR · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:27

I am pretty confused how fibre works. Well no, I know how it works, but what I don't understand is why fibre in the UK is so slow compared to the rest of the world?

I get activated in 6 days and all I get is 40 down and 6 up, for £45 a month. Google fibre in the states is 1gbit each way and it's $60 a month...

Mainly what I don't "get" about fibre is why the upload speed doesn't match the download speed? I could understand it being limited to stop people running servers at home but even the business options don't offer asychnronous speeds.

Any ideas?

Slightly jealous of people getting 990mbit each way in the states!

monkeyspank · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very-high-bit-rate_digital_subscriber_line

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:34

It's due to the hardware either side of the fibre runs that determine the speeds you can get.

Slower hardware will be cheaper to use, but also will be cheaper to upgrade in future.

As it's a lot more cost effect to replace the hardware either end of the fibre than it is to dig up the roads to lay something new.

I'm pretty sure at the moment, BT is actually making a profit from just digging up the roads and replacing the copper with fibre, as the copper is selling for a good price.

To have the speeds matched, would require more hardware for the up channels, depending on who you're with. Like Virgin's network is a cable TV network that's been purposed for internet usage, and upload bandwidth isn't as important as download bandwidth for that usage.

The networks in the US aren't really the same networks though as well, so that means there will be differences in what's available.

There is a company that distributes gigabit up and down broadband within London called Hyperoptic. I think their network is very similar to ethernet networking, but using fibre.

Paul11 · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:35

i think its also about needing fibre end to end, and at the moment it goes to the cabinet in the street

Caged · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:37

The business options are all synchronous, it's called a leased line and is actually delivered over a fibre optic cable. This will cost you roughly £1600 to install. Consumer options / home business are specced with a higher upload than download because that reflects usage patterns whilst making the best use of the available frequencies.

Infrastructure costs a huge amount of money. The UK on average is actually doing incredibly well in terms of speeds and accessibility.

spoffle said:
I'm pretty sure at the moment, BT is actually making a profit from just digging up the roads and replacing the copper with fibre, as the copper is selling for a good price.

They aren't replacing the copper with fibre. Your telephone calls still take the same path to the exchange that they always did.

geuben · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:42

Business value. Domestic consumers want faster downloads and aren't that bothered on the whole about upload speeds.

For example:

If they lay 4 10Gb/s trunk fibres in the ground they could

A) Offer everyone equal upload and download speeds, lets say 1Gb/s (to make things easy) they could get 20 subscribers on those 4 fibres (2x10Gb/s for down and 2x10Gb/s for up)

or

B) Off everyone 1Gb/s download and 333Mb/s upload. Then they could get 30 subscribers on the same trunk fibres. (3x10Gb/s for download and 1x10Gb/s for upload)

Option B clearly offers them more money.

^JP^ · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:46

When it does work, it looks like this http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3125289743

Caged · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:47

I think if you launched a 1Gbit product that was available nationwide for £100 a month you'd struggle to make money - a lot of the people that would buy it would use it to download the entire content of the internet / run servers 24x7, and everyone else would whinge that it wasn't £8 a month or free with their TV and stick with 2Meg ADSL.

It will be interesting to see how long Hyperoptic stick around for.

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:48

Caged said:
The business options are all synchronous, it's called a leased line and is actually delivered over a fibre optic cable. This will cost you roughly £1600 to install. Consumer options / home business are specced with a higher upload than download because that reflects usage patterns whilst making the best use of the available frequencies.

Infrastructure costs a huge amount of money. The UK on average is actually doing incredibly well in terms of speeds and accessibility.

They aren't replacing the copper with fibre. Your telephone calls still take the same path to the exchange that they always did.

I know, they are replacing the copper between exchanges, which is where the majority of it will be anyway.

monkeyspank · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:49

Old copper cables are worth nothing to bt. They aren't gypsies

Caged · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:50

spoffle said:
I know, they are replacing the copper between exchanges, which is where the majority of it will be anyway.

If they're making money from replacing copper with fibre after paying for the labour then I'd be amazed.

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:52

monkeyspank said:
Old copper cables are worth nothing to bt. They aren't gypsies

If there's enough of it, which I think there is, then it's not worth nothing at all.

Caged said:
If they're making money from replacing copper with fibre after paying for the labour then I'd be amazed.

I think it's because there's so much of it and the cost of fibre is cheap.

monkeyspank · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:53

86JR · 25 Nov 2013 at 21:54

Caged said:
The business options are all synchronous, it's called a leased line and is actually delivered over a fibre optic cable. This will cost you roughly £1600 to install. Consumer options / home business are specced with a higher upload than download because that reflects usage patterns whilst making the best use of the available frequencies.

Infrastructure costs a huge amount of money. The UK on average is actually doing incredibly well in terms of speeds and accessibility.

They aren't replacing the copper with fibre. Your telephone calls still take the same path to the exchange that they always did.

I was quoted £5k to have FTTP done by BT and that would only allow 330mbit down and 30? up. So a leased line is much cheaper? How much is the monthly rent for the line for 1gbps both ways?

andy_mk3 · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:00

I do look forward to a FTTP connection, I know that's a long way off yet though, I'd like 80/20 over FTTC, I currently get about 35/8, which is nice but it's not enough

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:30

monkeyspank said:
Lol

Do go on, and maybe you could try to be less condescending next time.

twoblacklines said:
I was quoted £5k to have FTTP done by BT and that would only allow 330mbit down and 30? up. So a leased line is much cheaper? How much is the monthly rent for the line for 1gbps both ways?

It's £50 a month from Hyperoptic with a £40 set up fee on a 12 month contract.

Caged · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:30

twoblacklines said:
I was quoted £5k to have FTTP done by BT and that would only allow 330mbit down and 30? up. So a leased line is much cheaper? How much is the monthly rent for the line for 1gbps both ways?

10Mb was £680 a month last time I looked. If your fibre on demand cost is £5k then your leased line install cost will also go up.

spoffle said:
I think it's because there's so much of it and the cost of fibre is cheap.

The cable is cheap, the labour, equipment and terminating isn't. Copper isn't so valuable that BT are turning a profit from replacing it.

Hyperoptic is the price it is because they get to cherry pick the best locations and might only have to dig one trench to get a couple of hundred potential customers.

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:38

Caged said:
The cable is cheap, the labour, equipment and terminating isn't. Copper isn't so valuable that BT are turning a profit from replacing it.

I've read something about it, it might have been about one specific area or even a specific road, I can't remember now as it was a while back.

Hyperoptic is the price it is because they get to cherry pick the best locations and might only have to dig one trench to get a couple of hundred potential customers.

Oh I know that, I was just posting that for the sake of comparison.

monkeyspank · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:41

spoffle said:
Do go on, and maybe you could try to be less condescending next time.

It's £50 a month from Hyperoptic with a £40 set up fee on a 12 month contract.

Sorry
Disregarding the fact that the exchanges are still full of copper, and assuming that the material cost of fibre cables was nothing, it would cost them far more in installation costs than they could ever recover by selling some scrap copper cables. They recently bought one of the biggest uk manufacturers of copper twisted pair cables in order to meet their own demand. They will be paying less for raw copper than they could get for reclaimed copper.

spoffle · 25 Nov 2013 at 22:43

monkeyspank said:
Sorry
Disregarding the fact that the exchanges are still full of copper, and assuming that the material cost of fibre cables was nothing, it would cost them far more in installation costs than they could ever recover by selling some scrap copper cables. They recently bought one of the biggest uk manufacturers of copper twisted pair cables in order to meet their own demand.

You could have just said this then couldn't you? It's okay to be wrong, I'm not allergic to it and break down in tears and sweat if something I thought turned out to be incorrect.