How should I best connect my new LG OLED E7 TV to my Onkyo 646 amp?

[NeilF]

So I have the following devices:-

• Sky HD (obvious my go 4K at some point)
• Amazon Fire 4K box (obviously this may be less used if the Amazon app is OK on the TV)
• Bluray player

At the moment these are plumbed into my 646 amp as follows:-

• Sky via optical into amp
  
• Amazon Fire HDMI through amp to TV
• Bluray play through amp to TV
• The TV ARC also outputs to the amp via HDMI (but its sound can cut out - known issue with older TVs like mine I believe).

So when I plumb in my LG TV should I keep the same setup, or can I instead plumb all the devices into it (via HDMI) and then feed a single HDMI from the TV to the amp? Will the TV then handle the DTSHD or Dolby Pro Logic for example coming from the bluray player/Amazon Fire and either play it through the TV speakers, or if the amp is on, send that audio unmolested to the amp?

Obviously I want to ensure 4K, HDR and ease of use is all handled. ie: If the amp isn't on the Sky audio comes out the tv speakers.

Thanks in advance!

 

[lucid]

According to the Onkyo web site your amp is 4K UltraHD / HDCP 2.2 / HDR enabled. It'll have Standby Pass-Thru as well, which answers the question about sound coming from the TV speakers when the amp isn't on.

Presumably you play Blu-rays since you have a player? Do you really want to lose DTS5.1/Dolby TrueHD/DTS-MA by routing via the TV (Clue: The answer should be No). Your amp will support ARC, so any TV app audio and even the Freeview HD tuner audio can route back to the amp. The amp has CEC which takes care of the convenience features.

With the amp you have I can see no obvious reason why you'd do anything other than route all the sources to the amp first and then one connection to the TV. The only two remaining questions would be (1) why are you still using Optical for Sky? and (2) do you not understand the bits of gear you've bought?

 

[NeilF]

According to the Onkyo web site your amp is 4K UltraHD / HDCP 2.2 / HDR enabled. It'll have Standby Pass-Thru as well, which answers the question about sound coming from the TV speakers when the amp isn't on.

Presumably you play Blu-rays since you have a player? Do you really want to lose DTS5.1/Dolby TrueHD/DTS-MA by routing via the TV (Clue: The answer should be No). Your amp will support ARC, so any TV app audio and even the Freeview HD tuner audio can route back to the amp. The amp has CEC which takes care of the convenience features.

With the amp you have I can see no obvious reason why you'd do anything other than route all the sources to the amp first and then one connection to the TV. The only two remaining questions would be (1) why are you still using Optical for Sky? and (2) do you not understand the bits of gear you've bought?

Are you sure I'll lose DTS5.1/Dolby TrueHD/DTS-MA going into/through the TV?

The TV supposedly can cope with advanced audio formats. eg:-
DTS Decoder: Yes
Audio Codec: AC3(Dolby Digital), EAC3, HE-AAC, AAC, MP2, MP3, PCM, DTS, DTS-HD, DTS Express, WMA, apt-X

So if I play DTS into the TV from a blu ray player, and then turn on the Amp, won't that DTS signal then get fired to the amp via the HDMI ARC connection?


As regards your two questions:-
1) I don't have the amp on typically unless watching something special such as a film. ie: I don't have it on 90+% of the time. So I'd want to just be able to turn the TV on and watch Sky without having to faff about with the amp.
2) I do, but not so clear on what the LG will allow me to do. In an idealworld if a single ARC lead from the LG to the Amp will allow me to get the audio from any input in any format into the amp, that sounds a lot simpler all round! Just watch the TV for TV based sound, or turn the amp on for sound from that. The only question with this approach is would the DTS, DTD-MA etc audio be happy going into the TV, and then optionally on to the amp?

 

[xs2man]

Wow. I ALWAYS use my amp for sound, regardless of what I'm watching. When my TV switches on, the amp comes on too, and outputs whatever I tell it to (it is all set to come onto the sky input on the AVR, and pump out the Sky sound, as well as the TV coming onto the AVR's HDMI), all with one button press on the TV remote.

I can't imagine having spent so much on a decent surround sound set-up, and using the TV's own crappy speakers for any reason.

 

[NeilF]

Wow. I ALWAYS use my amp for sound, regardless of what I'm watching. When my TV switches on, the amp comes on too, and outputs whatever I tell it to (it is all set to come onto the sky input on the AVR, and pump out the Sky sound, as well as the TV coming onto the AVR's HDMI), all with one button press on the TV remote.

I can't imagine having spent so much on a decent surround sound set-up, and using the TV's own crappy speakers for any reason.

Thanks... I can rest easy knowing how you listen to audio now...

But on a side note, you're implying you output all audio from your TV over arc to your amp? Isn't this the exact thing I'm suggesting moving to with the LG E7 (I can't with my current TV as it only handles stereo sound). Or have I misunderstood and you're infact ploughing all inputs through the amp and then onto the TV.

IF the LG E7 can achieve what I hope it can then I simply plough any/all HDMI inputs into the TV and simply have a single HDMI arc to the amp. This would be the most flexible/friendly solution. Turn on the TV and play anything into it, and the audio comes out of the TV speakers. Turn on the amp (it only has one input "TV"), and then the audio instead comes out of that. Perfect!

 

[pepp77]

When you have an amp you should connect everything to it and then one cable from the amp to the TV.

This will give you the best sound options at all times. It also means that as long as you set the amp to passthrough = auto if you want the TV on but not the amp anything connected to the amp will output the sound through the TV automatically.

ARC is a poor substitute for a properly setup system.

 

[NeilF]

When you have an amp you should connect everything to it and then one cable from the amp to the TV.

This will give you the best sound options at all times. It also means that as long as you set the amp to passthrough = auto if you want the TV on but not the amp anything connected to the amp will output the sound through the TV automatically.

ARC is a poor substitute for a properly setup system.

Understood - As you describe it as per my current setup as my current TV simply cannot accept or pass through anything other than stereo.

HOWEVER, if the LG can accept and indeed process all your traditional audio formats, and pass them through to the amp (unmolested), the result would be a far more friendly user experience for us at least. And of course mean video signals aren't going needlessly through an amp.

The question comes down to:-
1) Can the LG accept more exotic audio inputs such as DTSHD etc and play them through its speakers - The LG website seems to suggest so.
2) Can the LG pass its audio over arc unmolested - I don't know if there's restrictions on arc meaning it can't pass through certain audio from certain sources?

If both of the above are a "Y" the result could be a far far more friendly interface

ps: Worse can I'll just have to play. But if someone can confirm it will work (eg: they're set up in the same way) then at least if I hit an issue I know it's more likely a setting than a brick wall.

 

[pepp77]

Quick google suggests you will not get the Bluray DTS-HD over the ARC as a minimum

It is also important to note that even though ARC uses the HDMI physical platform, advanced surround audio formats, such as Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio/:X are not accommodated at all on the original version of ARC (which is the one still in use until HDMI 2.1 is released).

Rest will depend on what your TV can do as some will allow 5.1 from a normal TV source or smart app built into the TV to be sent over ARC, but will not provide anything more than Stereo if having to take sound from an incoming HDMi and output it via ARC to a receiver.

 

[NeilF]

Quick google suggests you will not get the Bluray DTS-HD over the ARC as a minimum

It is also important to note that even though ARC uses the HDMI physical platform, advanced surround audio formats, such as Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio/:X are not accommodated at all on the original version of ARC (which is the one still in use until HDMI 2.1 is released).

Rest will depend on what your TV can do as some will allow 5.1 from a normal TV source or smart app built into the TV to be sent over ARC, but will not provide anything more than Stereo if having to take sound from an incoming HDMi and output it via ARC to a receiver.

Ahhh!

So that puts an end to that hope then. ie: The arc from the TV to the amp simply cannot handle some of the more advanced audio formats

Oh well, at least that makes the wiring simple. ie: Plug it in identically to my current set up


note: So it would seem when HDMI 2.1 comes along it may well become more common for the amp to simply be a slave of the TV, just for audio.

 

[lucid]

Ahhh!

So that puts an end to that hope then. ie: The arc from the TV to the amp simply cannot handle some of the more advanced audio formats

Which is what I said in the first place

Actually, LG is bucking the industry trend and including a full DTS decoder in its premium TVs. I guess they've done a deal with DTS as that brand fights back from losing some market position due to Dolby ATMOS. Fair play to LG for that. However, don't get too excited. LG TVs still follow the general trend of no support for Dolby True HD.

It's also unclear what the TV would do with the ATMOS encoded audio from Sky.

Also, there's no guarantee that just because a TV understands a HD Audio codec that it passes that signal through to the HDMI ARC connection. ARC makes no promises as to what audio standards it passes. Lots of people got (and still get) caught out with that.

Oh well, at least that makes the wiring simple. ie: Plug it in identically to my current set up

I hope not!

There's no reason for you to be still using Optical from Sky. HDMI carries DD just as well as optical.

note: So it would seem when HDMI 2.1 comes along it may well become more common for the amp to simply be a slave of the TV, just for audio.

I'd be surprised if much effort was put in to making TVs a fully-fledged AV Switching Hub as you hope. It's far too cutthroat a market to go spending money on niche features.

 

[NeilF]

Which is what I said in the first place

Actually, LG is bucking the industry trend and including a full DTS decoder in its premium TVs. I guess they've done a deal with DTS as that brand fights back from losing some market position due to Dolby ATMOS. Fair play to LG for that. However, don't get too excited. LG TVs still follow the general trend of no support for Dolby True HD.

It's also unclear what the TV would do with the ATMOS encoded audio from Sky.

Also, there's no guarantee that just because a TV understands a HD Audio codec that it passes that signal through to the HDMI ARC connection. ARC makes no promises as to what audio standards it passes. Lots of people got (and still get) caught out with that.

Well, from a similar question on an AV forum, I've believe I should be able to plug my sky box and amazon Fire box directly into the LG E7, and have it then play the audio over its speakers, or if I turn the amp on, send their audio over arc to the amp.

Only the bluray would then require to go through the amp and then into the TV due to it possibly having audio that arc cannot cope with.

If this is true, then that's a step in a good direction for me. I need only turn the amp on for the bluray player, and if/when I want better sound from the TV generally.

There's no reason for you to be still using Optical from Sky. HDMI carries DD just as well as optical.

I currently have to have an optical from the SKy box to the amp because:-
1) The sky box is mainy used without the amp on, so it needs to get audio into the TV without the amp on/involved. And it can only do this set to stereo HDMI audio as the TV can only handle stereo input.
2) I cannot use the current arc from my GT30 to the Onkyo 646 due to regular audio cut outs (like every few seconds). I'm hoping this is down to my 6yr old GT30's poor arc connectivity. ie: When I get the new LG E7 I can indeed do away with the optical and live entirely off the Sky box ploughing native audio into the LG and then with the option to arc it into the amp unmolested. Note: If the same cut outs happen with the new LG then I guess i's time to get the Onkyo replaced under warranty

I'd be surprised if much effort was put in to making TVs a fully-fledged AV Switching Hub as you hope. It's far too cutthroat a market to go spending money on niche features.

Well, all it would mean is passing through the unprocessed audio signal over arc to the amp. ie: What ever the TV is playing/processing, alternatively just pass it over arc unmolested. But I agree many/most TVs wouldn't want to process all manner of exotic audio formats. The LG E7 seems quite happy with most of them though!

 

[xs2man]

Thanks... I can rest easy knowing how you listen to audio now...

Phew. Happy to help.

But on a side note, you're implying you output all audio from your TV over arc to your amp? Isn't this the exact thing I'm suggesting moving to with the LG E7 (I can't with my current TV as it only handles stereo sound). Or have I misunderstood and you're infact ploughing all inputs through the amp and then onto the TV.

No. I don't use ARC at all. It never really worked well for me. I have all inputs going into the AVR, then an HDMI from AVR to TV, and use an optical cable for the sound from TV back to AVR. But I do have the TV and AVR linked so that when one comes on so does the other. The only drawback with this is if you only want to listen to music, without the TV on, then you have to go into the settings to turn that off. But I have other systems for listening to music, so not a huge deal.

When you have an amp you should connect everything to it and then one cable from the amp to the TV.

This will give you the best sound options at all times. It also means that as long as you set the amp to passthrough = auto if you want the TV on but not the amp anything connected to the amp will output the sound through the TV automatically.

ARC is a poor substitute for a properly setup system.

I THINK my amp does have passthrough though, but I never use it, as the TV speakers alone are simply terrible compared to the surround set-up. Even for just watching the news, or her watching Greys Anatomy or whatever.

 

[lucid]

Well, from a similar question on an AV forum, I've believe I should be able to plug my sky box and amazon Fire box directly into the LG E7, and have it then play the audio over its speakers, or if I turn the amp on, send their audio over arc to the amp.

Sure. Sky+/+HD doesn't do anything better than DD5.1, and then only on the channels that support it, and only when those channels play content that has DD5.1 (or just DD) sound.

Amazon Fire - well, the latest version certainly supports Dolby Atmos, so if you have a TV or AV Receiver that has the Dolby Digital Plus decoder then great.... except for one little fly in the ointment

This is from LG's web site for the 65" E7

*The 2017 LG OLED TV currently supports Dolby Atmos playback via Dolby Digital Plus utilising Internet streaming, cable/broadcast and side-load (USB). Other Dolby Atmos codecs such as Dolby TrueHD utilising Blu-ray discs are not currently supported. LG is working closely with Dolby to enable a Dolby TrueHD support for LG OLED TV’s.

Note that it doesn't say it supports DD Plus for HDMI sources......which would be an Amazon Fire TV for example. You can have DD Plus if you're playing from one of the TV's built-in apps, or from the built-in tuners (there's three: Freeview, Freesat, Cable) if ever those broadcasters decide to do 4K with DD Plus, or you can use a USB connected device..... but nothing about DD Plus from any HDMI source device such as Fire TV or Sky Q

Anyway, yes, you can connect a Fire TV to the HDMI socket as long as you're happy with a max of DD. If that does it for you then go right ahead.

The consensus here appears to be route everything via the amp and use its Standby Pass-Thru feature to send picture and sound to the TV when the amp is off. That's the way I do it at home too, but each to their own.

 

[NeilF]

Sure. Sky+/+HD doesn't do anything better than DD5.1, and then only on the channels that support it, and only when those channels play content that has DD5.1 (or just DD) sound.

Amazon Fire - well, the latest version certainly supports Dolby Atmos, so if you have a TV or AV Receiver that has the Dolby Digital Plus decoder then great.... except for one little fly in the ointment

This is from LG's web site for the 65" E7


Note that it doesn't say it supports DD Plus for HDMI sources......which would be an Amazon Fire TV for example. You can have DD Plus if you're playing from one of the TV's built-in apps, or from the built-in tuners (there's three: Freeview, Freesat, Cable) if ever those broadcasters decide to do 4K with DD Plus, or you can use a USB connected device..... but nothing about DD Plus from any HDMI source device such as Fire TV or Sky Q

Anyway, yes, you can connect a Fire TV to the HDMI socket as long as you're happy with a max of DD. If that does it for you then go right ahead.

The consensus here appears to be route everything via the amp and use its Standby Pass-Thru feature to send picture and sound to the TV when the amp is off. That's the way I do it at home too, but each to their own.

Yes, I think you are right. Clarifying that other thread it seems we end up with the Amazon Fire also thru the amp to ensure correct audio treatment. So the same info from two source, so thanks!

So in my case we basically end up where I am now with everything going through the amp except Sky which hopefully can instead use arc to send its audio to the amp now:-
1) The new LG TV can handle DD etc instead of just stereo.
2) Hopefully the new TV can send arc audio to the amp (instead of an optical cable) without my current stutters I get from the current TV.

 

[lucid]

So in my case we basically end up where I am now with everything going through the amp except Sky which hopefully can instead use arc to send its audio to the amp now:-
1) The new LG TV can handle DD etc instead of just stereo.
2) Hopefully the new TV can send arc audio to the amp (instead of an optical cable) without my current stutters I get from the current TV.

Honestly, I can't see the point in running just Sky in to the TV. If we presume for a minute that the LG will be able to handle DD without audio drop-out, then it will do just the same going via the amp as direct to the TV.

You see, the way HDMI works is to reconfigure the audio stream to suit the destination device. In my case my Sky+HD box is set to Dolby but my TV only accepts stereo via HDMI. The connection runs Sky > Amp > TV. When the amp is on I get DD5.1 for those channels and programmes that carry it. But I can watch the same recording with the amp in standby and still hear sound from the TV speakers. That's because the HDMI handshake recognises the difference between the amp and the TV and so reconfigured the Sky box audio out to suit.

90% of my family's TV viewing is done via the TV speakers using Standby Pass-thru on the amp. My Yamaha amp will do standby Pass-thru for any HDMI source. My other sources are BD, a streamer, and a games console. Those other sources can be selected even with the amp in standby.

In the end it's up to you how you connect. You'll have the TV there so you can try it either way. I very much suspect you'll still go Sky to TV direct; and really it makes no difference unless you go to Sky Q and subscribe to the sports channels. (AFAIK football is the only Atmos source on Sky Q right now). It just feels like a rather odd choice though to rely on ARC for one source only when all others will run through the amp. If we were talking about a basic stereo sound bar the fair enough as all sources would default to stereo anyway; but you have an advanced Atmos capable AV receiver with all the bells and whistles.

 

[NeilF]

Honestly, I can't see the point in running just Sky in to the TV. If we presume for a minute that the LG will be able to handle DD without audio drop-out, then it will do just the same going via the amp as direct to the TV.

You see, the way HDMI works is to reconfigure the audio stream to suit the destination device. In my case my Sky+HD box is set to Dolby but my TV only accepts stereo via HDMI. The connection runs Sky > Amp > TV. When the amp is on I get DD5.1 for those channels and programmes that carry it. But I can watch the same recording with the amp in standby and still hear sound from the TV speakers. That's because the HDMI handshake recognises the difference between the amp and the TV and so reconfigured the Sky box audio out to suit.

90% of my family's TV viewing is done via the TV speakers using Standby Pass-thru on the amp. My Yamaha amp will do standby Pass-thru for any HDMI source. My other sources are BD, a streamer, and a games console. Those other sources can be selected even with the amp in standby.

In the end it's up to you how you connect. You'll have the TV there so you can try it either way. I very much suspect you'll still go Sky to TV direct; and really it makes no difference unless you go to Sky Q and subscribe to the sports channels. (AFAIK football is the only Atmos source on Sky Q right now). It just feels like a rather odd choice though to rely on ARC for one source only when all others will run through the amp. If we were talking about a basic stereo sound bar the fair enough as all sources would default to stereo anyway; but you have an advanced Atmos capable AV receiver with all the bells and whistles.

Simply because most of the household's viewing is sky through the tv speakers. What the household doesn't need is coming to watch sky and realising the amp is on the wrong channel (ie: passing through the bluray play or amazon fire ehich are not on).

So with the Sky box plugged into the TV there's no issues/hassle/question marks. And should we want better sound from Sky, I turn on the amp and get full audio via an optical lead to the amp. When I install the new LG this will be simplified to hopefully just an arc.

If and when I go Sky Q then I'll need to see what audio formats will not go through arc.


Note: If the Onkyo 646 could be told which source to go to when it's turned off, that would solve the matter. But I don't believe it can. ie: When it's turned off, always revert to Sky and therefore pass that through to the TV.