How to approach this

[ChroniC]

I work as a freelance graphic artist/designer etc.
I have been asked by a client who I contract for, how i do a particular thing, so he can show others who work for him.

I frankly want to tell him to go **** himself. I would prefer not to show others how I stand out amongst a crowded industry and that if they can't do it correctly he should send me all the work.
That said I do not want to be rude and lose a valuable client.

Rock -- Hardplace.

I want to write something like this.

"I feel like I'm being put in a difficult place here because I don't want to impact your business, but I hope you can appreciate that how I do something is what makes me stand out from the others. This is not something I want to share so quickly after 10 years of trying to perfect it and it is the reason I hope you send me work."

 

[Felon]

What does your contract say? I believe there are various rules around how information is given out, or "owned" by companies as intellectual property.. My very limited understanding is that unless it's clearly set out in a written document that you've signed - then you don't have to tell them anything, as far as I know.

I'm sure someone who knows a lot more will add more useful information, but in my opinion - your contract should have everything laid out,

 

[richthomuk]

I would go with your gut and tell him to go **** himself. If you were in house with him then it would be tricky and would be a reasonable request but if he is just a client then he shouldnt really be asking you to be a consultant to his employees unless that is what he is hiring you for.

 

[Dicehunter]

Never give your work or work advice away for free.

 

[ChroniC]

Never give your work or work advice away for free.

With regard to my contract, it is a very loosely based object, which given something like this I realise needs to be improved.
It only comprises of costs and times etc. I will work on finding somethng more approriate.

I have emailed him saying something similar to the above, we shall see what happens.

 

[Felon]

Unless you've explicitly entered into a contract with someone, that anything you produce becomes their intellectual property, or whatever - then they have no legal basis for trying to make you give out the information..

But yeah - I understand you don't want to annoy the client, so a rock and a hard-place indeed, but if there's one thing I've learnt - from my own experiences and the experiences of others, always look after number 1

 

[dowie]

Unless you've explicitly entered into a contract with someone, that anything you produce becomes their intellectual property, or whatever - then they have no legal basis for trying to make you give out the information..

what he produces probably is his client's intellectual property... especially if he's creating logos etc.. for them

but that question of ip ownership isn't really relevant to the question of whether he need share how he goes about his trade

 

[Diddums]

He's basically asking you to teach his staff how to do something you do, so he can ditch you and get them to do it. Tell him to do one, or pay a lot of money for the privilege.

 

[Felon]

but that question of ip ownership isn't really relevant to the question of whether he need share how he goes about his trade

I think it is, "trade secrets" and "design rights" which include the methods of how you might go about doing or producing something, are defined specifically as intellectual property, and as such are covered by intellectual property rights,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property#Trade_secrets

 

[ChroniC]

He's basically asking you to teach his staff how to do something you do, so he can ditch you and get them to do it. Tell him to do one, or pay a lot of money for the privilege.

Exactly why I got the hump. It would have to be worth many many months invoices to commit me into doing that, and I know he won't pay it. Seems it's going to be a wait to see if he replies at all, knowing he was trying to pull a fast one or wait to see if he choose inferior work and getting his knickers in a twist.

 

[dowie]

I think it is, "trade secrets" and "design rights" which include the methods of how you might go about doing or producing something, are defined specifically as intellectual property, and as such are covered by intellectual property rights,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property#Trade_secrets

How is it relevant then?

again:

what he produces probably is his client's intellectual property... especially if he's creating logos etc.. for them

but that question of ip ownership isn't really relevant to the question of whether he need share how he goes about his trade

why conflate that with the methods used to produce the work?

Point is that simply producing a logo for someone, and assigning the rights to that logo to them doesn't have any relevance to whether you are under any obligation to share trade secrets. What are you trying to claim here - that there is some obligation for the OP here - if so then can you explain how instead of linking to a wikipedia article?

 

[Semple]

I think how you've worded it in your opening post comes across fine.

A magician never reveals his tricks.

At the end of the day the client is paying for the finished product not the technique of how it was made.

 

[Dis86]

Perhaps advise the for a fee you're more than happy to come in and pass on information/instruction to others.

Make the fee large enough to cover potential lost income.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Perhaps advise the for a fee you're more than happy to come in and pass on information/instruction to others.

Make the fee large enough to cover potential lost income.

Indeed, I'd go back and say that this would be classed under training which is not covered under the existing rates and that you'd be happy to negotiate a training rate.

 

[Maundie]

Indeed, I'd go back and say that this would be classed under training which is not covered under the existing rates and that you'd be happy to negotiate a training rate.

Exactly what I was going to say, try and cover yourself with a large fee because you will probably end up losing the client when he gets his staff to do it themselves.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Exactly what I was going to say, try and cover yourself with a large fee because you will probably end up losing the client when he gets his staff to do it themselves.

Indeed and by offering training your expanding your services for other clients too.

 

[Semple]

How did this turn out in the end?

 

[Deleted member 77746]

This doesn't just happen in freelance. It's rife with managers/CEOs wanting others to learn your job for nothing.

 

[dowie]

This doesn't just happen in freelance. It's rife with managers/CEOs wanting others to learn your job for nothing.

Rather a different scenario though - if you're an employee then you don't really have much of a basis for complaint if asked to train/teach others.

 

[Steampunk]

I work as a freelance graphic artist/designer etc.
I have been asked by a client who I contract for, how i do a particular thing, so he can show others who work for him.

I frankly want to tell him to go **** himself. I would prefer not to show others how I stand out amongst a crowded industry and that if they can't do it correctly he should send me all the work.
That said I do not want to be rude and lose a valuable client.

Rock -- Hardplace.

I want to write something like this.

"I feel like I'm being put in a difficult place here because I don't want to impact your business, but I hope you can appreciate that how I do something is what makes me stand out from the others. This is not something I want to share so quickly after 10 years of trying to perfect it and it is the reason I hope you send me work."

"Unfortunately, that information is company confidential."