How to make my system stable?

ShellShock · 10 Dec 2008 at 17:17

I rebuilt my system over a year ago but it has never been 100% stable - in games like Medieval Total War 2 and Company of Heroes I sometimes get flickering textures. For example, in MTW2 on the battle map where there is a large city, the buildings and walls will flicker rapidly. This problem does not happen all the time (but it is happening more now), and I don't play games all the time, so I have put up with it, but I have tried a lot of things to try and fix it. I've assumed it is overheating somewhere, but both the CPU and GPU do not report any overheating. The GPU is not overclocked.

Anyway, I'm thinking of upgrading my system and I want to get rid of this problem once and for all. The most important things to me are:

100 % rock solid stable system
Quiet

This is my current spec and how I am thinking of upgrading, highest priority first:

HIS ATI Radeon X1950 Pro - I suspect this is the culprit for my flickering problem. I had a Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT in the same rig before and that also had the flickering problem (so may be the GPU is not the problem - how likely is it that I would have 2 with the same problem?).

I will buy Geforce this time, but I don't know what model. I want something with similar or better performance than my ATI X1950Pro, but most importantly it must be stable, not run too hot (I will not be overclocking) and be relatively quiet. I'm not looking for an Uber rig, just something I can rely on and which will run the current and next crop of games at a reasonable speed and resolution (1680 * 1050).

Window XP - upgrade to Vista to make use of DirectX 10. Not likely to make any difference to the flickering problem?

Motherboard/CPU/RAM. Gigabyte GA_965P_DS3/Intel Core 2 DUO E6300/GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz. I'm worried that the root of the problem is the Mobo overheating somewhere. The RAM has already been replaced once by Overclockers as the previous sticks failed memory tests. If I get a new GPU and the problem still occurs, then I guess I need to replace the Mobo; so I will be getting a new Mobo and probably a more up to date CPU and RAM. If I do this then again I want a system that is rock solid stable and quiet and could not be used to heat a small country.

Perhaps I should be buying an off the shelf rig instead (but this will cost too much)?

Any opinions will be gratefully received.

ShellShock · 10 Dec 2008 at 19:02

The Halk said:
What defender says is valid, but I'd suggest keeping the credit card in the wallet until you try the tests I suggested. Might as well do the free stuff first

Thank you - your advice is just what I need to get the ball rolling on fixing this problem once and for all. Obviously if I can pinpoint where the fault is that will be most of the battle - at the worst I will be able to replace that component and not face a major upgrade.

Up to now I've haven't had a definitive set of tests to run. So thanks again.

ShellShock · 10 Dec 2008 at 21:39

So far I have run memtest and it came up with 0 Errors.

I'm now running Orthos, with the "Blend - stree CPU and RAM" test.

Core Temp has identified my CPU as:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (Conroe-2M)
Freq: 2800.04 Mhz (400.01 x 7.0)
Platform: LGA 775
VID: 1.3250v

Temperature Readings (while running Orthos):

Tj. Max: 85 C
Core #0: 65 C
Core #1: 64 C

SpeedFan at the same time shows:

Found Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6300 @ 1.86GHz

Fan1: 2500 RPM
Fan2: 1439 RPM

Temp1: 34C
Temp2: 56C
Temp3: -2C
HD0: 29C
HD2: 30C
Core0: 64C
Core1: 64C

Vcore1: 1.42V
Vcore2: 2.06V
+3.3V: 3.33V
+5V: 4.84V
+12V: 2.11V
-12V: -16.97V
-5V: -8.53V
+5V: 5,13V
Vbat: 3.04V

I get similar figures for the "Small FFTs - stress CPU" test.

I don't know if these temperature readings/fan speeds are abnormal or not.

ShellShock · 10 Dec 2008 at 22:19

I've been running Furmark too. With the windowed burn test at 1280 x 1024 the ATI CCC temperature slowly crept up to 70C over 4 minutes. I could not see any artifacts in the Furmark display. I don't know if this means anything...Also I ticked the box for Furmark to log the GPU temperature but I can't see where it saves this info.

ShellShock · 10 Dec 2008 at 22:42

Pea0n said:
Silly question, but are your drivers up to date?

- Pea0n

Not at all - I updated them recently:

Code:

Driver Packaging Version	8.552-081028a-070226C-ATI	
Catalyst® Version	08.11	
Provider	ATI Technologies Inc.	
2D Driver Version	6.14.10.6879	
2D Driver File Path	System/CurrentControlSet/Control/Video/{1A3D2BD6-12FF-49FB-B326-577F27342121}/0000	
Direct3D Version	6.14.10.0621	
OpenGL Version	6.14.10.8201	
Catalyst® Control Center Version	2008.1028.2134.36851	
AIW/VIVO WDM Driver Version	6.14.10.6238	
AIW/VIVO WDM SP Driver Version	6.14.10.6238

I've also updated my mobo BIOS and chipset drivers. Plus I removed my aging SoundBlaster PCI card (I changed to the audio on the mobo) and disconnected my floppy drive and one of my CD drives. Made no difference. I've tried running with the side off the system case - still the same. It has been really cold recently in my gaming room but even so I still get the flickering problem (it is so bad sometimes the game is unplayable).

I have just run Furmark fullscreen (1680 x 1080) in Xtreme Burning Mode for 5 minutes. The GPU temperature in CCC went up to 70C, with no artifacts that I could see.

ShellShock · 11 Dec 2008 at 18:26

Thanks for the advice again. Your comments above the relatively high CPU temperature has prompted me to go into the BIOS and load the "optimised defaults". Previously I had manually set the memory timings and overclocked the CPU. Up to now I had kind of assumed the problem was with the GPU so I had not seriously considered whether the CPU could be the problem.

Anyway, using the BIOS defaults the CPU temperature is about 10C lower, before and after stress (Orthos).

A test in MTW2 has not shown the flickering problem - but this will need a lot more testing.

For now this is a definite thumbs up.

ShellShock · 12 Dec 2008 at 09:35

Well I spoke too soon - the flickering problem is as bad as ever. This is with no overclocking in the CPU or GPU. I need to confirm the CPU core temps when the problem happens; I do know that the temps are generally 10C lower than before after booting Windows - about 32C.

I also have another symptom: when I was playing MTW2 last night and went into a battle, the buildings/walls were flickering like crazy. The more buildings they were it seems the more likely the problem is to occur. Also, sometimes the screen went completely black for a few seconds, and then the battle reloaded itself and I could continue playing from the same point. I'm wondering if this is the VPU Recover feature in the ATI CCC? That is the GPU had reset itself? If so, why would it do this?

ShellShock · 12 Dec 2008 at 15:11

Thanks for your advice (again).

I did what you said - using Driver Sweeper, and Driver Cleaner Pro. I also installed the very latest 8.12 drivers.

And...so far so good. The problem has not re-occurred (would have expected to see by now). I'm still not overclocking and core temps are maxing at 47C (GPU is also mid 40s).

I need to give this a lot more play testing before I will be convinced the problem has been fixed, but so far so good.

ShellShock · 12 Dec 2008 at 18:29

I can't figure this out. I played a couple of hours earlier today, and the system was OK, but now after a hour or so it has been flickering badly again.

So I guess it is not due to bad drivers...

ShellShock · 13 Dec 2008 at 10:24

The next test I'm doing is running with only one stick of RAM, as suggested by Pea0n. The memtest should have already eliminated that as a problem but who knows? It will take me a day or so to test the various RAM combinations.

I also get the same problem in Company of Heroes, so I don't think it is game related.

I'm just going to have to be methodical about this and test one thing at a time. The alternative, which I've comtemplated, is to get out the credit card. The advantage of buying an off the shelf system is that if it does have a problem like this, then it is someone else's problem to fix. But that is a very expensive solution.

Really, it should not be this difficult. I bought all these components at the same time from overclockers as being good quality, well matched and up to date, but I've had this problem since the beginning. I did upgrade the GPU later to the X1950 thinking that would solve the problem, but no dice.

ShellShock · 14 Dec 2008 at 09:28

This problem happens in only some games: Medieval Total War II and Company of Heroes. But I don't play many other games anyway.

Yesterday I removed one of the RAM sticks: result - MTW2 froze mid battle. I had to hard reboot. This is a different symptom than normal. I therefore swapped the RAM sticks - same result in same battle. So I'm not sure if this is a hardware problem or something to do with that battle. Today I have put both RAM sticks back in, but I am using different channels. Up to now I have always used channels 1 & 3, now I'm using channels 2 & 4 (both Dual Channel). So we'll see how it goes. I will probably run memtest again.

If this fails to fix the problem I will try unplugging one of the two SATA hard disks I've got (could be due to power drain?).

I am also thinking about reinstalling Windows. My hard disk is partitioned into 4 which I am regretting as my system partition (C) is always short of space, so I could take this opportunity of re-installing XP with a single partition for everything. I might upgrade to Vista instead of re-installing XP. That way I won't be going through the pain of re-installing just on the off-chance that it will fix this problem - I will actually be achieving something useful (single partition/Vista upgrade).

I assume a Vista upgrade will install onto a re-formatted partition as long as I have the XP CD to hand to verify that this is an upgrade and not a new install?

If this problem is due to a faulty component I would be quite happy to cough up more dough to fix it, but at the moment I just don't know what to replace.

ShellShock · 14 Dec 2008 at 16:23

Changing the DIMM channels made no difference, and memtest still came up with 0 errors.

So I then unplugged my second SATA hard disk, and strangely enough the flickering has not occurred again (but I still need more testing). I have got two identical Seagate Barracuda 250 GB SATA drives. One has the O/S, apps, documents on it, the other I just use for back up etc.

If the drive is the source of the problem, would this be due to power drain? I have an Enermax Liberty 500W PSU. Would a 600W PSU be better?

ShellShock · 21 Dec 2008 at 20:45

I thought I would give an update on where I am with this. I have two sata hard disk drives, and the motherboard has 6 SATA connectors--in 3 pairs. Previously, when I had the flickering problem, I had the 2 drive cables in the same pair of connectors. Now I have moved the second drive cable to a different pair of connectors, and strangely my system seems a lot more stable, and I don't get the flickering. I can't really explain why this should make a difference, and I am not totally convinced that this is the real cause of the problem and that it won't come back. But hey--don't knock it if it seems to be working!

ShellShock · 27 Dec 2008 at 11:19

Dsteviedee said:
Have you tried increasing the PCI-E bus frequency in the bios?

Seem to remember that 1950 pros liked this running higher (101-105).

Yes, I tried that--made no difference. Also I was wrong to think it was to do with my hard disk. After I plugged my second SATA drive into a different connector on the motherboard, the in-game graphics flickering disappeared for several days, so I thought I had fixed the problem. But recently the flickering has come back.

Anyway, I have now finished playing MTW2; I am thinking of upgrading the graphics card anyway to Geforce 9800 so I will see if that makes a difference.