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Huddy on Gameworks round 3

Orangey

Orangey

Orangey

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http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read...ges-the-performance-on-nvidia-hardware/036660

AMD's gaming scientist Richard Huddy has launched a scathing attack on rival chip maker Nvidia.

Speaking to PCR in an open and frank interview about the state of the industry - which will be published in full in our upcoming September issue - we asked Huddy for his thoughts on Nvidia's GameWorks graphics technology.

GameWorks allows games developers to use a library of graphics tools - including HairWorks and Soft Shadows - but some owners of AMD graphics cards have complained of poor performance when running GameWorks titles, such as Project Cars, on their machines.

"If it was just that, then people could say: 'I’ll take my choice and turn it off if I’m with AMD and leave it on if I’m with Nvidia. But I think it’s more negative than that – and I’ll point to two facts here," Richard Huddy told PCR.

"Number one: Nvidia Gameworks typically damages the performance on Nvidia hardware as well, which is a bit tragic really. It certainly feels like it’s about reducing the performance, even on high-end graphics cards, so that people have to buy something new.

"That’s the consequence of it, whether it’s intended or not - and I guess I can’t read anyone’s minds so I can’t tell you what their intention is. But the consequence of it is it brings PCs to their knees when it’s unnecessary. And if you look at Crysis 2 in particular, you see that they’re tessellating water that’s not visible to millions of triangles every frame, and they’re tessellating blocks of concrete – essentially large rectangular objects – and generating millions of triangles per frame which are useless.

He added: "Now, bringing down AMD’s performance is pretty dodgy, but when they bring down their own consumers’ performance, then it makes you wonder what they’re up to. Their QA must be appalling if it’s a mistake, and if it’s not a mistake, it makes you wonder what their motivation must be. So I think it’s very unhelpful for the business.

"If you look at the way the performance metrics come out, it’s damaging to both Nvidia’s consumers and ours, though I guess they choose it because it’s most damaging to ours. That’s my guess."
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He has a point, the overtessellation is something we have Nvidia dead to rights on, personally I'm convinced it's purely a business move to hurt AMD while cutting off their own nose.
 
This really comes across as bitter and desperate. Why do AMD employee's feel the need to attack something instead of driving forward their own tech. Quite sad really.
 
Wow, we in a time warp or something? Is huddy really talking about crysis 2 after all this time lol. AMD must really be in the **** if they lower themselves to this sort of rubbish.
 
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Do Nvidia users not get the choice to turn off Gameworks effects if they don't like the performance hit too? Only AMD customers can do that?

Also, I wasn't even aware that Crysis 2 used GameWorks?
And when he says 'they', does he mean Nvidia or, the company they now seem to like so much, Crytek?

Is having the option worse than not having the option (TressFX in Lichdom)?

See a lot of AMD people saying how you don't see AMD fan posting negative things in Nvidia threads. This is why, they create brand new threads every time they want to have a go at Nvidia over something. And if there's nothing new then just drag up something old to start with again...
 
James J said:
Wow, we in a time warp or something? Is huddy really talking about crysis 2 after all this time lol. AMD must really be in the **** if they lower themselves to this sort of rubbish.
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:D first thing that struck me as well, how bitter do you have to be to still be going on about a game from what, 5 years ago? and wasn't even a gameworks title

I still don't get what the problem is, using both AMD or Nvidia cards, if you don't like an option you can turn it off, if you have FPS to spare you can turn it on.
 
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andybird123 said:
:D first thing that struck me as well, how bitter do you have to be to still be going on about a game from what, 5 years ago? and wasn't even a gameworks title

I still don't get what the problem is, using both AMD or Nvidia cards, if you don't like an option you can turn it off, if you have FPS to spare you can turn it on.
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Probably because "gameworks" has only been a thing since 2014. It was however a "twimtbp" title which preceded gameworks.
 
I get more performance in Witcher 3 with all the Nvidia stuff enabled, in certain areas than a 980Ti sli setup, i don't think that Gameworks in "ALL" titles that have it and use the tech, wreak AMD cards more than Nvidia, although i can't see the point in it all, imo makes barely any difference for the performance hit.
 
not this crap again.

AMD guys: gameworks is bad.

Nvidia guys: gameworks is good.

Neutral guys: enough already, move on.
 
Cant see this thread staying calmly on topic with sensible discussions. Already the predictable comments are firing in, this will need to mods to nip it in the bud before it starts.
 
I see what he means, but it's sad to see this coming from Huddy/AMD. Coming from him it just looks like a pathetic PR attempt to tarnish Nvidia's rep. Here's a thought, concentrate on creating a great product and advertise it well without firing cheap hits at your competition? I'm sure Nvidia have done similar (can't quote any refs at this time), but I usually tend to ignore anything like this from either side, it's just annoying...
 
Nothing wrong with GW games on AMD, Watch Dogs, from the reviews, the 290s were faster than the 780 Ti, ive got Dying Light, runs superb with the GW stuff turned on for me, have it maxed out, W3, that even ran crap on Nvidia cards with the Hairworks, as they were all complaining about AMD owners being able to boost performance in it, by using the tess slider in their drivers, they were all screaming it was cheating, so the devs added a slider into the game for them, so they could now cheat, as they don't have anything in their own drivers to do it.

PC Cars, wasn't the poor performance down to AMD themselves, as didn't it run fine on their cards while it was still in BETA on some of their older drivers for it ?
 
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I have noticed that a lot of games run smoother in SLI on Windows 10, Watch dogs does, Advanced Warfare, BF 4, its seems to be adding the vram together on my cards.
 
I suspect he's probably right.

Hairworks in Witcher 3 as an example, I got 45 fps, then turned it on and it cost 7 fps. I'm not losing 15% performance to see a slightly more realistic hippy, not on my watch son
 
If AMD care so much about their customers getting the best experience possible then start putting in the same amount of effort as NVidia do with developers (like AMD did with GTA V for example). AMD only ever lift a finger for AAA games or ones that have built in benchmarks that will be used in reviews.

Even ATI saw the importance of working with developers BEFORE a game is released (and here Huddy is talking about the importance of it):
http://hexus.net/tech/features/graphics/794-atis-richard-huddy-talks-get-in-the-game/

[Richard]: Get In The Game is an umbrella term for a collection of activities, all of which are aimed at ensuring that games players get a 100% satisfactory experience when using ATI hardware. We work closely with developers to ensure that their games take full advantage of our hardware, we ensure excellent driver compatibility, and we try to make sure that games players know which games have been specifically tuned for ATI hardware.
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[Richard]: Resting on one's laurels is equivalent to suicide. In an industry like this you are quickly over-taken if you don't try to set an aggressive pace.

That's exactly what happened to NVIDIA with the NV30. They totally underestimated how aggressive ATI planned to be - and as a result their market share fell.
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What changed Huddy?

AMD are just lazy and expect everyone else to work their balls off to support their products, they're living in a dreamland if they think that everyone else is responsible for fully optimising for their £300-£600 products.
 
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As an Nvidia user I do have to agree with Mr Huddy that Gameworks performance hit is a little ludicrous even on Nvidia hardware even when it doesn't really add much.

The problem is AMD need to have exclusive graphical features in good triple "A" games like Nvidia has so more people buy AMD hardware otherwise this circle jerk will continue for the foreseeable future.

Bring out AMD Omegaworks or something :p
 
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