Human Rights: Single mums might not be sent to prison

[FoxEye]

Just listening to this on the news.

In future judges will be expected not to send mothers of young children to jail - apparently it infringes the human rights of the children - that being the "right to a family life".

Naturally this doesn't apply to blokes. Instead it guarantees that mothers will have lesser sentences for any crime than a man would (that is probably mostly true today regardless).

What I don't understand is how this is happening when we ostensibly have a conservative government in power.

But yeah, we're going to (literally) give mums a "get out of jail free" card.

 

[FoxEye]

I'm outraged I tell ya, OUTRAGED!

Assuming that this is sarcasm... you're quite happy for the justice system to have dual standards?

 

[FoxEye]

I'm quite happy for the justice system to have different solutions to different issues yes.

The prisons are full, understaffed and underfunded so just 'lock em up' isn't a universal solution to everything. Here is a small subset of criminals (really, how much of the prison population do you think new mothers make?) that through incarceration causes subsidiary issues to an innocent dependent, so if other ways of meeting out justice can be done, like home curfew with tags, community service, having to sign in with a social worker/parole officer then I'm good with that yes.

Or we could just execute both of them, that's another solution.

So why not do all of that for blokes as well? Why just mums?

Also why not allow the very rich to make donations to avoid prison? Since you're OK with not applying the same rules to everyone.

 

[FoxEye]

I also wonder why it is considered that the interests of the child are best served by living with a mother who is a criminal... not going to be a stellar role model in some cases.

 

[FoxEye]

The term "single parent" is well-understood, and implies custody of the child. It's a bit silly to argue that that isn't the case.

 

[FoxEye]

Yes but you also balance that with this from the article.

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences and more likely to receive short sentences of 6 months or less.

Women are already treated differently.

If every time someone starts looking into something the frothers are going to froth then how do you expect things to change for the better?

I'm not sure that quote is highlighting existing differences in sentencing... but rather different types of crimes being committed between the sexes.

I don't think it means that

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences

Instead that

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences

And that the sentences are lower on average because non-violent crimes typically have lower sentencing guidelines.

No doubt (as I said in the OP) women and men are treated differently, but this seems to an attempt to entrench in law the giving of more lenient sentences to women with children.

 

[FoxEye]

It was semi in-jest. He's like 40 or something, but he does live in his parent's basement.

FYI we mostly don't have basements in this country. We occasionally have cellars, for wine and stuff. But not basements.

The UK is not a state in the US, and we have perfectly good insults without needing to copy them.

 

[FoxEye]

What if the cause is just pure selfishness?

"I want this and I'm going to steal it because I can."

So what there is the cause? That it's too easy to steal things? That the offender views the theft as the best way to get the item? That the offender really wants the item? That society is to blame for being materialistic?

At what point do you blame the offender, or do you never blame the offender?

 

[FoxEye]

But is any of this even about rehabilitation? So far it's been framed by that MP as "think of the children's human rights". Not about rehabilitation for offenders.

Just think of the poor chil'uns losing their ma.

In fact what she said was (something along the lines of) "Family law is based around the concept of putting the children first. Criminal law needs to be updated so that it also is centred around the human rights of the children."

Which is odd. Surely the law - esp criminal law - is to protect us from anti-social behaviour. To protect our rights as mostly law-abiding citizens.

But no, apparently now the rights of offenders' children are to be the top concern for justices. Sorry ma'am, I know she mugged you and took your purse, but she has a child. Therefore please be reassured that by not punishing her we are doing the right thing by her child. We're sorry if you don't feel very safe, and indeed you probably aren't, but new policy is the children come first.

I know other countries keep being referred to where punishments are lenient or non-existent.

The idea that you can transplant another country's legal system into the UK, and not account for differing values/upbringing/levels of social cohesion... well, it's nuts. The UK has some right scrotes contained within her, and frankly I'm sure the good people of Norway or Denmark don't suffer to the same extremes as we do (with chavs and miscreants).

 

[FoxEye]

So if the children become criminals due to their mothers interning is it not better to reduce the possibility of that by atleast giving them a family life?

What about if the children become criminals due to the mother's poor example, and the reinforced idea that they can probably get away with it?

e: nm, really. I've had some semi-serious discussions along these lines, and it's my current understanding that children from miscreant parents are normally completely ****** by age 4 or even earlier. The early years being massively formative, and irreparable damage having already been done by that point.

Basically kids from miscreant parents are pretty much going to be problems for society, guaranteed. It's extremely sad, but true ish.

I guess at least by keeping them with their miscreant parents they aren't robbing/assaulting their foster parents.

Some people should simply not be allowed to breed. And that is a genuine belief that I really do hold.