I don't really shoot babies...

phartars you sound like an overly critical professional wedding photographer?. I cant grasp one argument tonight that is valid unless you are shooting for a lens review magazine and even then your pushing it.

You might shoot at F4 to ensure a broader range of focus is achieved but each to their own style and in a contemporary modern style I think its safe to say that these images work to the critic and requirement of the owner and even to the client.
 
I'm not going to argue, either, arguing on the internet and all that...

There's nothing in shot 2 couldn't reproduced with gaussian blur in photoshop.

Most people would just think it's OOF.

Photographers might reasonably argue that those are not good examples of what that lens can achieve.

Shooting a subject using available light with a lens which on paper should handle it doesn't mean that it will do
so hand held and that you shouldn't use a tripod and a reflector and select the right focus point or take your time.

And the chroma ?

What an odd post :/

you come from nowhere, hardly having posted in this forum before, on some kind of mission to sling as much mud as you can and **** off one of our regulars.

And then to claim "i'm a photographer" when you've been on these forums 2 years and barely touched them.

Very bizzare
 
claim "i'm a photographer" when you've been on these forums 2 years and barely touched them

I 'qualified' as a 'photographer' in 1988.

The hate rain that 'noobs' get from crazy posters when expressing opinions on fora may go some way to explain your second point.

Apologies for disturbing your equilibrium ;)
 
Filter

Well, it had it from day 1. and it is not madness. Have you tried to take photos amongst 100+ people holding alcohol, smoke machine, dancing, rain, wind, etc etc?

It was sharp with the plants, with the fire.

It is not as sharp now.

The filter hasn't changed, so its not the variable. Are you saying I should take it off and magically it will be sharp? or just give up on it and shoot with a 50/1.8 and fake all my bokeh in PS and avoid shooting in situations where there are lights in the background because it won't look as good compare to my 1.4?

Noo......get the lens calibrated would be easier....I don't really know what you 2 are trying to say...

Not having a go, I was just saying the uv filter is achieving nothing useful and may affect image quality. It adds nothing, the hood protects the lens and minimizes the chance of the filter interfering with things.

That's all I was saying certainly not advocating any of the other stuff you mention.
 
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Lol raymond, your the only guy i know who manages to essentially capture two great images within one, AND retain your watermark :

IMG_0992.jpg


If only you had shot at something like F11!!
 
Most people would think it's just OOF. Any attempt to explain dof and primes to parents usually fail by about word 6.



Best to see that before you pull the trigger and post the results on the web for critique.



Selecting the right lens for the job, making sure that the background isn't too busy so that it detracts from the subject, cropping the shot so that it's more flattering to the subjects ... The subject on the right would immediately focus on her neck, for example.

ellakim2crop.jpg


Anyway, no offence, all photographers are.. well .. photographers, me included :)

In all honesty you seem very aggressive. This would be ok if it were me you were critiscising, as im not very well liked and im rubbish at photography, so people would put up with it, but tbh I and many others consider Raymonds work to be excellent so coming on here with 167 posts to your name and almost ridiculing his work is not really something anyone wants to see :) This coming from me is about the nicest thing you will hear on this forum :)
 
Not having a go, I was just saying the uv filter is achieving nothing useful and may affect image quality. It adds nothing, the hood protects the lens and minimizes the chance of the filter interfering with things.

That's all I was saying certainly not advocating any of the other stuff you mention.

Well, the question here is always going to be MAY break the lens vs MAY affect IQ.

I prefer to be safer than sorry. I can't exactly go out to get another lens in the middle of a shoot. If I work in a studio then I would agree but when I can't control the environment, not to mention I can't control others, that'd the main thing, other people, it's why I leave it on.
 
Selecting the right lens for the job, making sure that the background isn't too busy so that it detracts from the subject, cropping the shot so that it's more flattering to the subjects ... The subject on the right would immediately focus on her neck, for example.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4366/ellakim2crop.jpg[IMG]

Anyway, no offence, all photographers are.. well .. photographers, me included :)[/QUOTE]

In all honesty I don't like your crop - if you excuse the pun, it marginalises the photo. The human eye doesn't draw to peripherals, it's attracted to the four points of the golden ratio. I see what you're saying but I really don't agree with the aggressiveness of the crop nor would I shy away from allowing some of the natural human form come through. This isn't about making a photo for a magazine but about catching a sweet moment - it doesn't need 'air brushing'.

There is such a thing as being too critical and I think you are starting to miss the point of photography, it's catching the moment and conveying the colour (figuratively and literaly) and/or emotion - getting too anal about the technicalities is setting yourself up to fail at the first hurdle. IMO of course.

Regarding Raymonds work, I think your critique is possibly a bit overzealous - I personally think he has a nack for getting catching the moment (clearly too much time taking wedding shots! :p). I also think he uses the DOF from a wide open lens to good effect and I think you may be nit picking a bit much.
 
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In all honesty you seem very aggressive. This would be ok if it were me you were critiscising, as im not very well liked and im rubbish at photography, so people would put up with it, but tbh I and many others consider Raymonds work to be excellent so coming on here with 167 posts to your name and almost ridiculing his work is not really something anyone wants to see :) This coming from me is about the nicest thing you will hear on this forum :)

I was aware of them when she took her coat off, but it's just nature, having a baby and all that. She's also becoming a good friend, so I don't see her that way. There are other shots where she leaned closer hence in focus but i am aware of the male population here soooooo I left those out lol

I have put them in a gallery for her to see though, behind a password of course :p
 
I was aware of them when she took her coat off, but it's just nature, having a baby and all that. She's also becoming a good friend, so I don't see her that way. There are other shots where she leaned closer hence in focus but i am aware of the male population here soooooo I left those out lol

I have put them in a gallery for her to see though, behind a password of course :p

Bah tease!
 
Funbags!

:O

I like the images, I like the bokeh (which is the quality I'd expect to see from a fixed L lens) and I like the processing too!
 
I have noticed that lately, I am not sure if it is front focusing, it is ever so slightly off since the last wedding. I could micro adjust it but planning to send it to fixation when i get back from Italy since it is still under warranty.

I'd sound a note of caution about fixation at the moment - I've had a couple of bad experiences with them recently which have really put me off (such as not doing something they'd been explicitly asked to do and then charging for having done it - and that was actually going in to see them they managed that...).

I know they have a generally good reputation and I haven't had problems before the last few months but the last couple of times have really put me off, I'm getting my Nikon stuff serviced elsewhere these days and looking for another option for Canon gear (anybody??)
 
i think people are being a little harsh on the new guy. Some of what he says holds credence, i dont profess to be an expert by any means mind. The crops for example to prove sharpness, were all taken from the centre of the frame. Its my understanding the effects will be observed more in the corners and edges, which would have been a better test of the quality of the Lens, no?

As for your work Raymond, i said in another thread i wish you'd done my wedding, typically you produce great shots. HOWEVER, two points i'd make further are:

1) you don't seem to take criticism well, deserved or otherwise (which is fine, no one likes criticism, but i have noticed a couple of times you get very defensive very quickly)

2) i fear you are using DOF to generate a focal point too much maybe now? I dont see all of your shots, so i may be seeing a skewed ratio, but whilst i agree they create a focal point they do render a lot of the other image useless. As an example, that one at the top of the woman sitting at the back of the room. Technically a great shot. For me and my wedding, i'd rather see a nice photo of the whole crowd than a blurred shot of the crowd, and a clear photo of someone who may not be that significant to my day. Just my 2p though.
 
That would be true for the kit lens or something cheaper but not for an L, and certainly not for one of the Holy Trinity.

Trust me, when i first got it, it can hit it at 1.4.
Technically, pharters is right. The 35mm is perfectly usable at f/1.4 but sharpens up considerably from around f/2. And I think he has a valid point about an 'unfussy background' being useful.

It's a £1,000 lens, if I need to shoot it a few stop narrower I would save myself £800 and get the 2.0. That's the point of the L, the ability to shoot wide open and sharp.
But if you got the f/2 you wouldn't have a lens that was sharp at f/2, where the f/1.4 would be.

He does have a point - it's just not coming across that well.

There's nothing in shot 2 couldn't reproduced with gaussian blur in photoshop.
Doubtful.

You could achieve a similar effect but nothing like what can be achieved in-camera. And why would you want to shoot at a narrower aperture and higher ISO just to add the blur in post?

Unless you're commenting on the composition itself?

Most people would just think it's OOF.
Now this I'll agree with. Most non-photographic people probably would - but I'd wager that Raymond's clients know it's not and want this particular style.

Photographers might reasonably argue that those are not good examples of what that lens can achieve.
And, equally, they might argue the reverse.

Are you, as a photographer, arguing that they are bad examples?

With a lens that good its madness to bung a filter on it though - a hood or nothing surely.
That debate will never be concluded to the satisfaction of both 'sides' but it's personal choice and I can see the pros and cons of doing so.

I've never seen a real-world example of IQ being affected with a good filter, despite all the various examples we see on the interweb.

Selecting the right lens for the job, making sure that the background isn't too busy so that it detracts from the subject, cropping the shot so that it's more flattering to the subjects ... The subject on the right would immediately focus on her neck, for example.
I agree with selecting the right lens for the job, I agree with selecting the right background and I agree about cropping (or composing) the shot to flatter the subject.

But, that's not one of Raymond's photos you've edited, so the point is somewhat moot if aimed at him.


The subject is perfectly in focus you muppet, the focus of it is drawing your eyes to it, the bokeh around it is lovely.

Gawd, some people.
And some people don't seem to be able to make a point without resorting to cheap insults.

I'm sure you can elaborate on your comments more eloquently, so why not give it a whirl?

Knock yerself out, kidda ..

1 needs to lose the brown blob bottom left and the yellow orb centre
I think he's got a valid point there.

I love Raymond's photography but I do find the occasional OOF object in the foreground/background to be immensely distracting.

However, let's remember that these are shot on the spur of the moment and not planned out in advance. The client is most likely perfectly happy with the images they have been provided and will treasure them for years to come.

But if that was a posed photo from someone else, we'd most likely be mentioning the composition and OOF elements as issues.

What an odd post :/

you come from nowhere, hardly having posted in this forum before, on some kind of mission to sling as much mud as you can and **** off one of our regulars.
I don't see any evidence of him 'slagging off' Raymond; just a very big difference in opinion and some ideas about photography that most of us would think of as odd.

And then to claim "i'm a photographer" when you've been on these forums 2 years and barely touched them.
There could be plenty of people on the forum that have a massive wealth of photographic knowledge and haven't bothered to post in this particular area.

Post count isn't a measure of experience.
 
i think people are being a little harsh on the new guy. Some of what he says holds credence, i dont profess to be an expert by any means mind. The crops for example to prove sharpness, were all taken from the centre of the frame. Its my understanding the effects will be observed more in the corners and edges, which would have been a better test of the quality of the Lens, no?

As for your work Raymond, i said in another thread i wish you'd done my wedding, typically you produce great shots. HOWEVER, two points i'd make further are:

1) you don't seem to take criticism well, deserved or otherwise (which is fine, no one likes criticism, but i have noticed a couple of times you get very defensive very quickly)

2) i fear you are using DOF to generate a focal point too much maybe now? I dont see all of your shots, so i may be seeing a skewed ratio, but whilst i agree they create a focal point they do render a lot of the other image useless. As an example, that one at the top of the woman sitting at the back of the room. Technically a great shot. For me and my wedding, i'd rather see a nice photo of the whole crowd than a blurred shot of the crowd, and a clear photo of someone who may not be that significant to my day. Just my 2p though.

One could argue that it's Raymonds style of photography. I agree he does use a great deal of heavy DOF and in terms of modern photography there does seem to be a general lean toward this style. But then the question is more about his versatility as a photographer and his own risk of becoming clichéd within his own style.

From a technical perspective what Phartars says holds credence but it's a little difficult to swallow when he's basically quoting a technical manual and not showing us anything of his own to back up his credibility. In the end I believe it's up to the photographer to decide where and how an image should be tweeked and sure some critique is to be expected when one posts on a public forum, but I would find it a bit easier to take if there was some sort of a demonstrated legitimacy in the observations rather than grabbing a photography manual and quoting it.
 
i think people are being a little harsh on the new guy. Some of what he says holds credence, i dont profess to be an expert by any means mind. The crops for example to prove sharpness, were all taken from the centre of the frame. Its my understanding the effects will be observed more in the corners and edges, which would have been a better test of the quality of the Lens, no?

As for your work Raymond, i said in another thread i wish you'd done my wedding, typically you produce great shots. HOWEVER, two points i'd make further are:

1) you don't seem to take criticism well, deserved or otherwise (which is fine, no one likes criticism, but i have noticed a couple of times you get very defensive very quickly)

2) i fear you are using DOF to generate a focal point too much maybe now? I dont see all of your shots, so i may be seeing a skewed ratio, but whilst i agree they create a focal point they do render a lot of the other image useless. As an example, that one at the top of the woman sitting at the back of the room. Technically a great shot. For me and my wedding, i'd rather see a nice photo of the whole crowd than a blurred shot of the crowd, and a clear photo of someone who may not be that significant to my day. Just my 2p though.

I do welcome criticism, when it has merits. I can see faults (quite a few in the photos at the start of this thread too but no one seem to picked up on it) The first photo could have been framed a little wider. I didn't like cutting off half her head, especially where her eyes are. The bottom where the table was could be cropped out, same with No. 3, bottom left corner.

But saying I should have use gaussian blur…I am sorry if I choose not to take that seriously, I mean, how can I?

The lady in a crowd shot, that's just one, out of many, I usually take a serious of photos where I pick a person out of a crowd so they make more sense as a set. I can see what you mean that I get defensive, perhaps I do, but I do so because I see more than you guys see. I see the 700 photos set of a wedding so when you say something like "I prefer to see a photo with the every person's experssion", well, they are there, but it's not shown here that's all, which means your comments is invalid, but you don't know that since you can't see what I see. So I can't say "you are wrong" because its not your fault that I chice not to put them up. Also, the technicaly restriction to shoot everyone in focus in a crowd is practically impossible at a wedding a lot of the time. You need to shoot at F/16 or something to get about 20 metres deep (some of the venues I have been in are HUGE)…..that's just not possible a lot of the time, especially when indoors. The aperture size/DOF is both a choice and physics. Choice is that I like it, physics is one of necessity to lower the ISO and keep shutter speed up. It is a balance of the 2.
 
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I'd sound a note of caution about fixation at the moment - I've had a couple of bad experiences with them recently which have really put me off (such as not doing something they'd been explicitly asked to do and then charging for having done it - and that was actually going in to see them they managed that...).

I know they have a generally good reputation and I haven't had problems before the last few months but the last couple of times have really put me off, I'm getting my Nikon stuff serviced elsewhere these days and looking for another option for Canon gear (anybody??)

That's good to know I guess. Who would you suggest for Canon gear then?

I could send it to Canon I suppose.
 
yeah thats what i suspected (about one shot out of many) just wanted to give you feedback which a customer might not feel comfortable doing.

Regarding the point about getting the whole group in shot and in focus being difficult, i have no idea how difficult i'm sure! But certainly the newer Nikons (dont know the Canon range at all) have amazing high ISO with pretty low noise, so whilst not always possible i'd be amazed if something couldn't be achieved?

As a whole i like your work Raymond, but wanted to point our that ALL of your pics having very narrow DOF results in the effect being over-used and reduces its impact.

An album of them may even become tiring - and thats feedback from a "customer", not a photographer. However, if you are confident that you have a good mix of narrow & deep DOF shots, in a range of styles but dont post them all here (i wouoldnt expect you to tbh!) then great, and as long as your customers are happy, and you keep getting business then even better!

I guess what i'm saying is the style is so good don't cheapen it with over-use.
 
That's good to know I guess. Who would you suggest for Canon gear then?
As you should be a CPS member, always, always Canon.

Unless the lens is an old model and they get scared that they'll somehow manage to break the lens and don't have any replacement parts. In which case anyone who will take the damn thing...
 
yeah thats what i suspected (about one shot out of many) just wanted to give you feedback which a customer might not feel comfortable doing.

Regarding the point about getting the whole group in shot and in focus being difficult, i have no idea how difficult i'm sure! But certainly the newer Nikons (dont know the Canon range at all) have amazing high ISO with pretty low noise, so whilst not always possible i'd be amazed if something couldn't be achieved?

As a whole i like your work Raymond, but wanted to point our that ALL of your pics having very narrow DOF results in the effect being over-used and reduces its impact.

An album of them may even become tiring - and thats feedback from a "customer", not a photographer. However, if you are confident that you have a good mix of narrow & deep DOF shots, in a range of styles but dont post them all here (i wouoldnt expect you to tbh!) then great, and as long as your customers are happy, and you keep getting business then even better!

I guess what i'm saying is the style is so good don't cheapen it with over-use.

But are you saying I should sell all my Canon gear just to get a Nikon D3s?

I am not going to do that ! Lol I am also not going to start taking a tripod to a wedding either because that is not my style. I guess the DoF has become part of my style, to start shooting more deeper DoF stuff would means I am changing it for the few? When many of my clients like what I do? I don't follow that logic.

I do push the aperture up to 6.4 (shocker) sometimes, in a group shot, but never when I want to shoot a single person, and never when I shoot with the 135L. That lens has never shot over F/2.8 lol It's because I like what it does, and even at F/4, the DOF is narrow because of the focal length.

However, at say 24mm, at 2.8, or 3.5, the DoF is deep enough for a small group of people, and seriously, you don't need the entire room to be in focus. That's what you get when you take a photo with a disposable camera.
 
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