I think I'm being sued...

[peanutismint]

First off, I hope this post isn't breaching any forum rules.

Secondly, I'm probably incriminating myself here, but I just want to test the water and maybe get some advice, so please, if all you want to say is 'serves you right' then save your keyboard.

Right so, down to the nitty gritty. Yesterday morning I received a letter from some random 'law firm' in London claiming that my ISP had provided them with evidence that I downloaded (and shared) an Xbox game via BitTorrent about 6 months ago. I'll hold my hands up right now and say that this claim is completely accurate, I downloaded a game via the BitTorrent protocol for my own personal use. I skimmed through the letter and read the name of the game I downloaded, the times and dates, my IP address and more. They basically said 'you've downloaded this game, therefore, on behalf of the game company, we're going to take you to court unless you pay this settlement fee'. In my just woken up state, shocked and slightly amused by this letter, and half-not believing it was authentic half-not WANTING to believe it was authentic, I threw the letter out.

My thoughts on this matter are thus:

1. I've downloaded more games, movies and albums than I can accurately count in my life, and suddenly somebody wants to call me on a game I downloaded, played for an hour, then thought 'man, this game sucks, I'm SO glad I didn't waste £40 on this' and never played again?! Unlucky.
2. I'll ignore this letter; perhaps they're just fishing to see who'll bite; if I don't respond then maybe they'll leave it, if they don't leave it well I'll be moving house in 3 months anyway, how are they gonna find me then...
3. Even if this is real, I don't have the sort of money they're telling me I have to pay them...I'd rather try and fight it on the grounds of 'downloading copyrighted media is intellectual property theft, but it's not like I'm selling them at a car boot sale or publishing it online for people; it should be up to me and all individuals what I/they download, and any attempt to control this is a breach of my human rights.

I wouldn't call myself a criminal, far from it. I have reasonably high morals and can tell the difference between right and wrong. I believe in supporting the people who create the things I'm passionate about, and spend money on works (be they games, movies or music) I deem worth buying, my game, DVD and music collection can attribute to that. I do see how downloading can hurt industries, and I don't excuse it by saying 'they're a big, faceless company, so it's okay', but rather realise that every penny goes towards furthering that industry, even if they do charge way too much for their media sometimes.

The thing is, most of the large, money-hungry corporations have this 'you wouldn't steal a handbag; you wouldn't steal a car; but downloading is stealing!' mentality, when frankly I think this is just a scare tactic.

(at this point in the story, see http://stealthisfilm.com/

You can't steal data. You can make it. You can un-make it. But you can't steal it, it's not a possession. You can however share it.

So without getting too lost in rhetoric here, I just want to share my story with the community here and ask

• Has anyone else received one of these letters before?
• Does anyone have any advice/suggestions?
• Has my ISP broken any laws by making my information available to this law firm without my consent?
• If I have unknowingly given my consent because it's lost in the small-print somewhere, can I appeal this?
• If you've ever downloaded anything, or continue to, please say '***I DO***', just so I can gauge a level of people's atitudes towards file sharing.

If Mods deem any part of this a breach of regulations, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thanks for listening.


P

 

[peanutismint]

Yeah, pretty sure it was something to do with Lyons or Lions or some sort of large jungle cat....

Okay, let's assume it's real..... tactics? (i personally like the bury head in sand idea..... )

 

[peanutismint]

Yeah I'm reading these other threads now... I'm not particularly planning to try and 'lie' my way out of it, although I do like the 'somebody hijacked my wireless signal' approach

Somebody said they can't sue you for a profit, only the cost of the game, i.e. £30. This sounds correct, although if I remember the letter properly they were saying that by utilising the BitTorrent protocol (i.e. seeding as well as leeching) I was making it available to others (now I'm no more than a petty car boot salesman!) and so should pay for loss of earnings....

Can't quite remember what the fee was, think it was somewhere around the region of £2000.... and they said if it went to court I'd be looking at more like £14k as a bottom end...

I'm pretty sure it was that Lyons company... if they're bogus or known for reeling in anybody who'll bite but harmless to those smart enough (or should that be dumb enough?!) to ignore it, then perhaps I will wait it out and see what happens...

 

[peanutismint]

Now my legal skills are a little rusty, but isn't what they're doing extortion?

I'd like to think so! But I guess what I'm worried about (and this is EXACTLY the fears they're playing on) is that I've done something which is, by most people's knowledge, 'illegal' (note the quote marks), and now I've been 'caught' (again, quote marks ) and so now I should pay up.... except I'm skint, a recent graduate, and don't make £14k in legal fees in a whole YEAR!

 

[peanutismint]

can they prove it was you who was operating the pc that downloaded it?

can they prove that you or anyone else actually used the downloaded data?

they cant prove anything

I LIKE YOUR STYLE! Sorry for caps, but I shouted it.

Put it this way: if it's serious they'll make more effort to contact you rather than using an unreliable letter.

Did you sign for it? If not then you never got it.

My thoughts exactly on the situation. I didn't sign for anything; it just came through the door. And as soon as I'd thrown it away, I said to myself that, if it is serious, I'll get a personal visit from somebody from their company, or from the Police; in either case I'll be happy to help with their enquiries. But until then... you ain't takin me down, pinko! I'm ain't your patsy, narc!! SERPICOOO!! SERPICOOO! Etc....

 

[peanutismint]

Just to change tack here slightly for a second... I'm wondering if anybody else would care to share their views on 'file sharing'. Is it indefensably wrong? Or always okay? Or only okay if you don't make money off it and are taking games for a 'test drive'?

What do people think?

 

[peanutismint]

Without going into depth with the IP law, (it's late, I'm tired) stop worrying.

Thanks for the reassurance; it means a lot! And yeah, people can discuss the rights and wrongs of file sharing till the cows come home...

You could say (as I do, frequently), that if only there were more games worth buying, there'd be less games pirated. But I suppose that's not really a fair argument... Some people like to think they're whipping the games industry into shape; that by pirating that copy of Tony Hawks Pro Skater 19 they're showing the huge games companies that they can't just keep churning out re-hashes to rake in the big bucks. I can see where they're coming from, and I share their animosity against games-for-money, but even I know that's not really a moral way to 'make a stand'....

£40 is a lot of money to waste on something you then dont like....

Simple solution, RELEASE MORE FRIGGIN DEMOS!

I concur again. I must admit, from time to time I have been guilty of not buying a game I loved. But not often, as my games collection is like my DVD collection, in that there's a huge pride to be taken in having a great collection of authentic works.

Look at it this way: If you download a game and it's good, you buy it. The company gets your money. If you download a game and it's bad, you don't buy it. The company doesn't get your money. Either way, you're playing the company's game, and surely the best outcome for them 'they played the game and loved it and bought it' is better than the worst outcome 'they didn't play the game and didn't buy it'. YOU should be the one who decides if it's worth showing your appreciation by giving the creators money. The business model would be VERY different from the one we know today, but if you've ever felt cheated after buying a lousy game, then there's something VERY wrong with the current system.

Anyways, thanks for setting my mind at rest, guys... Hope this forum doesn't turn up as a transcript in court in a few months time. In case it does -

HI FUTURE ME!

Trash can......don't forget the trash can..... WYLD STALLYNS RULE!

 

[peanutismint]

I really couldn't say, but isn't the onus on them to prove you're lying as in innocent until proven guilty?

Hmm on other posts on this subject, it seemed to be that the 'wireless internet hijack clause' wouldn't stand up in court, as everyone's supposed to be responsible for their own connection, so in this case apparently it's guilty until proven innocent.... I'd still try it, thought I'm hoping it won't go that far....

Also, they have MY IP address, so surely it would be connected to my machine, rather than somebody else's? Or does the identifiable IP address stop at my router?

 

[peanutismint]

Err.. shut up?

If you're out and about, and you're looking for something to eat, and there's a McDonalds and a Fancy Restaurant, you can't just go into McDonalds, buy a big mac, say "this is rubbish and not healthy, I'm not paying" and then walk into the restaurant, have a decent meal then decide you're gonna pay for it because it was good.

Someone's made the game, and spent time and money on making the game, just because it's rubbish or you don't like it, doesn't mean you should get to play it for free.

You're missing the point here; firstly, not liking a game means that you *don't* play it, not that you play it. Note, by 'play it', I mean repeatedly, more than a demo's worth. And besides, the bigger picture here is that we're not talking about physical Big Macs, we're talking about metaphysical bytes. If you heard a song and then hummed it yourself later on, but didn't pay for the privellege, should you be penalised?!

 

[peanutismint]

I think what you meant to say was actually....

"Having subsequently checked, it would appear that I made a mistake in the configuration of my wireless router, leaving it accessible to anyone with a wireless card, I can only imagine that someone accessed my broadband connection without my knowledge or consent to illegally download/share the copyright material mentioned in the letter. I have now reconfigured my router to secure my network, thank you for bringing this to my attention."

Didn't you?

Lol oh yes, how silly of me; that was exactly what I meant


Okay, so the general concensus is to ignore? I still have the letter but it's in about 40 pieces in the recycling! So if anyone'd like to read it, it can be arranged.

I would love to ring my ISP and threaten to leave due to them breaching my data protection rights, but I'm afraid then they'd tell the law company and they'd see that I was a 'live target'... Man I miss cable. Switching back to it in my new house soon after 2 years in a non-cable home, can't wait!! Is it just as easy for people to get your data from a cable ISP than an ADSL ISP? I know cable ISPs physically can't cap their bandwidth due to the way the network works and differs from ADSL, but does this mean they can't see what you're doing as well?

Also, I think it was Davenport Lyons, not Lyons Davidson or whatever...

 

[peanutismint]

Thankfully, not as yet... although I don't wanna jinx it!!

Nah it seems like it was an idle threat, but the fact that some people really will take the bait is very worrysome. The sad thing is that no 'law-abiding' government would ever side with the 'Pirates', even to protect them from wrongful entrapment and extortion, simply because they wouldn't want to be seen as advocating copyright infringement...

If I ever get a big man at my door threatening to break my fingers, I'll let you guys know! (once I learn to type with my tongue, obviously...)

 

[peanutismint]

Piracy is bad. Pirate, get caught, nothing to complain about.

I'll say there is. If I want to download freely available data shared over the internet, no matter to whom the data originally belongs, I feel that should be my human right. I certainly don't feel I should be punished for it... Nice viewpoint though...

 

[peanutismint]

If somebody MADE you either steal a car or download a game, and you'd be punished for either, if caught, which would you choose?

I agree, 'stealing' software is wrong. But sharing software isn't so wrong, is it? Alright, we're splitting hairs, where does 'sharing' a game with a friend become 'stealing' a game, I hear that. But surely there's a defining line there?