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i7 5930k at 4.6Ghz.......Help me wait for Alder Lake

wunkley

wunkley

wunkley

Soldato
Joined
27 Jul 2004
Posts
3,680
Location
Yancashire
Still running my x99 with a 5930k, now bumped up to 4.6Ghz since I got my RTX 3090FE and a HP reverb G2 VR headset.

//EDIT// Nearly All my games fly, and I've not upgraded my cpu and motherboard for several years as I've genuinely not felt the need.

Important info:

I'm not a sillyhigh FPS, low res shooter type gamer. I game at 3440x1440 90Hz, 4k 60hz and now ridiculous high res 90Hz with the Reverb G2.

However, getting into VR with the G2 and especially getting back into Flight Sims again with MSFS and DCS World, the niggle to upgrade my CPU is back, as I believe most sim type games are still CPU limited rather than GPU limited.

But, I've waited this long, the really smart move is to wait for Alder Lake yes? Sounds like the first genuine jump in a long time on the CPU front, with DDR 5 too, etc etc.

I want a platform that will see me good for another 5 years or so. Don't want to jump in on a platform that has no upgrade path.
Would also consider Ryzen obviously, I have zero brand loyalty. Just want the best, but smartest bang for buck buy for a CPU and platform with some legs in it, like my current build was/ is. I really feel like I made a solid choice 5 or so years ago when I got the 5930k.

What sort of real world gain might I see in Flight Sim 2020 moving from a 5930K at 4.6Ghz with Quad channel ram etc, to for example, a 10900k?

Please convince me to wait :p
 
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Why bother at all if "All your games fly" just be happy with that.

Waiting for Intel to bring something worth while over last gen, or the gen before that, the gen before that......... seems like torture to me, there is always the next great hope and then it doesn't happen, early Rocket Lake was anticipated with the usual fan-fair and anticipation, but this time its a new architecture, its going to be brilliant, they said.

Now there is another hope, Alder Lake, lets wait some more. This time its the one.

My advice, stop torturing yourself, get what's there now, which is much better than what you've got, or stop waiting and be content.
 
wunkley said:
Still running my x99 with a 5930k, now bumped up to 4.6Ghz since I got my RTX 3090FE and a HP reverb G2 VR headset.

All my games fly, and I've not upgraded my cpu and motherboard for several years as I've genuinely not felt the need.

Important info:

I'm not a sillyhigh FPS, low res shooter type gamer. I game at 3440x1440 90Hz, 4k 60hz and now ridiculous high res 90Hz with the Reverb G2.

However, getting into VR with the G2 and especially getting back into Flight Sims again with MSFS and DCS World, the niggle to upgrade my CPU is back, as I believe most sim type games are still CPU limited rather than GPU limited.

But, I've waited this long, the really smart move is to wait for Alder Lake yes? Sounds like the first genuine jump in a long time on the CPU front, with DDR 5 too, etc etc.

I want a platform that will see me good for another 5 years or so. Don't want to jump in on a platform that has no upgrade path.
Would also consider Ryzen obviously, I have zero brand loyalty. Just want the best, but smartest bang for buck buy for a CPU and platform with some legs in it, like my current build was/ is. I really feel like I made a solid choice 5 or so years ago when I got the 5930k.

What sort of real world gain might I see in Flight Sim 2020 moving from a 5930K at 4.6Ghz with Quad channel ram etc, to for example, a 10900k?

Please convince me to wait :p
Click to expand...

I would hold off even when Alder Lake releases. If you are happy with what you’ve got especially. The price of DDR5 is going to be silly, and will have to wait for it to mature for it to be better than DDR4, or for it to make sense anyway from a price to performance point of view.

I think you’ve done the right thing getting your money’s worth, and if it’s doing what you want it to, even more reason to keep a hold in my opinion.
 
wunkley said:
I want a platform that will see me good for another 5 years or so.
Click to expand...

Issue you have is there is no stagnation in the CPU market anymore, nor the GPU market for that matter. Asking for 5 years out of something is a big ask if you don't want to get left behind.

If you are happy with what you have keep it, if you aren't change it, doesn't mean you have to spend a fortune either. :)
 
Keep an eye on your CPU utilization in games, easiest way to check this during gameplay is to enable the Game Bar in Windows 10, if you have an XB controller, pressing the central 'X' button will open the overlay.

If it approaches 90-100%, and your framerate drops significantly, the CPU is probably causing some FPS loss in games. It's best to cap your FPS (at 60?), as this will allow you to see how close you are to exceeding the capacity of your GPU and CPU.
 
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There's a bunch of us on here still with CPU's from the i7 2500k/2600k/2700k era who still haven't swapped our CPU yet as instead we just keep swapping the GPU to keep up, so if we can wait then surely you can wait too :D
 
Edited my first post to "Nearly all my games fly....."

(thanks for the replies so far)

The one game that ironically doesn't fly, is MS Flight Sim 2020 (especially in VR on the G2). It's my new Crysis crisis i.e. the one game that comes along, that you really like, that doesn't work as well as you want it to and sets the terrible PC upgrade demons off in your head.

I don't seem to be able to find any reliable info as to what sort of real world gain I might see in Flight Sim 2020 moving from a 5930K at 4.6Ghz with Quad channel ram etc, to for example, a 10900k at 5ghz?

Also, the new value gaming kid on the block seems to be the intel 11400F. I assume there would be absolutely zero point updating to something like this from a 5930k? It's still 6c/12 thread, doesn't overclock, but - what's the IPC gain between a 5930k at 4.6ghz and an 11400F at 4.4ghz? Would there be significantly higher minimum frame rates, if any gain, with an 11400f vs my 5930k?

(By the way, I've been out of loop regarding CPUs for a few years but I'm not a numpty when it comes to building rigs and knowing what's what on a tech level, monitoring my system performance etc etc)
 
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Are you still GPU bound with a RTX 3090 on Flight Simulator 2020? Do you play at 4K? If so, there's really nothing you can do, but wait for DX12, and maybe DLSS options.

Other than that, you could just settle for a low resolution or fps capped at 30-40. Capped framerate would probably be fine, as it's not a fast paced air combat game like Lock On / Air Combat series.

I wouldn't expect any difference from a CPU upgrade, if monitoring tools report low CPU utilization in game. Who knows though, maybe a quad channel DDR4 upgrade would help? you can probably simulate the effect of this by running the current RAM speed at different rates to compare (I don't know what RAM speeds your current board supports).

Are there any ridiculous game settings enabled in the max presets like 4x /8x antialising? could be as simple as disabling 1 or 2 settings.
 
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g67575 said:
Are you still GPU bound with a RTX 3090 on Flight Simulator 2020? Do you play at 4K? If so, there's really nothing you can do, but wait for DX12, and maybe DLSS options.

Other than that, you could just settle for a low resolution or fps capped at 30-40. Capped framerate would probably be fine, as it's not a fast paced air combat game like Lock On / Air Combat series.
Click to expand...

Depends on what 'screen' I'm using. As mentioned I've recently bagged a Reverb G2 headset and after playing flight sims in VR it's very difficult to go back to a flat screen trust me.

Without getting into details as it's a bit complicated, the G2 is essentially almost 2 x 4k resolution, so when using this I'm technically GPU bound. But I've seen people suggest that even at these insanely high resolutions in VR - when you would think you are entirely GPU limited - the CPU is still very important for Flight Sim 2020. It's this that's confusing me slightly as it goes against what I thought I knew, and I can't seem to find hard and fast info on whether updating my current CPU would help in this particular scenario.
 
At 4k and high 1440, it'll be the GPU that's doing the grunt work. No wonder the 5930k is still doing well.
 
wunkley said:
Still running my x99 with a 5930k, now bumped up to 4.6Ghz since I got my RTX 3090FE and a HP reverb G2 VR headset.

//EDIT// Nearly All my games fly, and I've not upgraded my cpu and motherboard for several years as I've genuinely not felt the need.

Important info:

I'm not a sillyhigh FPS, low res shooter type gamer. I game at 3440x1440 90Hz, 4k 60hz and now ridiculous high res 90Hz with the Reverb G2.

However, getting into VR with the G2 and especially getting back into Flight Sims again with MSFS and DCS World, the niggle to upgrade my CPU is back, as I believe most sim type games are still CPU limited rather than GPU limited.

But, I've waited this long, the really smart move is to wait for Alder Lake yes? Sounds like the first genuine jump in a long time on the CPU front, with DDR 5 too, etc etc.

I want a platform that will see me good for another 5 years or so. Don't want to jump in on a platform that has no upgrade path.
Would also consider Ryzen obviously, I have zero brand loyalty. Just want the best, but smartest bang for buck buy for a CPU and platform with some legs in it, like my current build was/ is. I really feel like I made a solid choice 5 or so years ago when I got the 5930k.

What sort of real world gain might I see in Flight Sim 2020 moving from a 5930K at 4.6Ghz with Quad channel ram etc, to for example, a 10900k?

Please convince me to wait :p
Click to expand...

One check is how close to this 5950x/3090 fps are you getting? Around 40fps, keep your 5930k, 35fps, mmm, time for a think :)
nKiBddc.jpg
 
turbot1984 said:
One check is how close to this 5950x/3090 fps are you getting? Around 40fps, keep your 5930k, 35fps, mmm, time for a think :)
nKiBddc.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Problem is though, charts like this are meaningless for flight sim 2020. It depends entirely on what plane you’re flying and where you’re flying.
I can get 70fps+ in some scenarios and be lucky to hit 30 in others.....
 
It's it actually possible to get the stable high frame rates you're after on a 3090 if flight sim even if you upgraded the CPU? Would be worth asking on a dedicated fs2020 forum or Reddit page to see if what you're trying to achieve is actually feasible on current generation hardware!
 
silvagti said:
It's it actually possible to get the stable high frame rates you're after on a 3090 if flight sim even if you upgraded the CPU? Would be worth asking on a dedicated fs2020 forum or Reddit page to see if what you're trying to achieve is actually feasible on current generation hardware!
Click to expand...

Good point. From my investigations so far, I don't think it is, especially in the big photogrammetry cities.

Flight sims aren't about high frame rates either. The thing you need in a flight sim is complete smoothness with Zero judder or hitching. In a lot of areas I can get this, but not in cities. In flight sim a locked 30fps with zero judder is far better than 55fps with judders/ microstutters/ landscape 'hitching'. And My G2 VR headset does 30fps interpolated up to 90, but that's another even more complicated story!

I see videos on youtube of Flight Sim 2020 with people saying it's lovely and smooth and it's just not, it's terrible. Some people just don't seem to see stutter or hitching. I do, and on a normal monitor now (not VR) I won't even consider playing any games without Gsync, but even that can't cure judder in Flight Sim in certain areas.

This is why I'm having dirty thoughts about updating my CPU / MB and RAM, to try and mitigate any stutters. But, I don't want to go through the expense and massive hassle of upgrading, basically for one or two games only to find out it makes very little, if any, difference.....
 
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wunkley said:
Thanks for that. Problem is though, charts like this are meaningless for flight sim 2020. It depends entirely on what plane you’re flying and where you’re flying.
I can get 70fps+ in some scenarios and be lucky to hit 30 in others.....
Click to expand...
Yeah agree, over NYC ultra/4k my 3080 is mid 30fps, maybe not surprising given the shed load of detail being processed. The fact you are also 'playable' makes me think a very expensive cpu upgrade isn't going to nab you massive gains. At lower res, it would be a no brainer.
 
If you know someone with a decent a CPU + RAM modules in their system, maybe you could install your graphics card in their system. Might need to wait until covid-19 restrictions are reduced though.

It's actually quite easy to see if there is a GPU bottleneck, if your GPU is at 90-100% utilization all the time during gameplay, upgrading the CPU / RAM will only produce a very marginal improvement. All you can do in this case is reduce the workload load on the GPU.

If the GPU is already running at capacity, the CPU can only be utilized upto a certain point. To reach a higher CPU utilization and framerate, the load on the GPU would need to be reduced.

If some of the CPU cores are being fully utilized, but not others, a higher clocked CPU with improved IPC could help somewhat.

In your position, I would wait for the next gen GPUs, 5nm /6nm EUV based GPUs should give you a nice boost over 8nm based Ampere. I'd expect 30-40% improvement in framerate if you buy the very best GPU (e.g. RTX 4090?).

RDNA 3 graphics cards might be coming out this year (could be November / December), if so the series would probably be based on 6nm EUV. I think this would be a smart move from AMD, if they combine the launch with their own resolution upscaling tech (like DLSS). The RDNA 3 Wikipedia states that it "is scheduled for late 2021 as per AMD's gaming GPU roadmap".
Link here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDNA_(microarchitecture)#RDNA_3

I do not believe the rumours about MCM (at least for the next gen. GPUs), AMD and Nvidia can already make significant gains without multiple interlinked GPUs.
 
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