Improve voice dialogue on TV

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 08:46

Hi,

I just sold my Soundbar, although it sounded great for films etc it didn't do what I need it to do which is improve voice clarity because I really struggle to hear what people are saying especially in films.

I'm not interested in bass or virtual surround and dont have the room for a sub and multiple speakers, I am interested in voice clarity and clear sound for films and TV shows in a compact all in one unit.

Has anyone else been where I am and bought something that improved voice?

Bose Solo 5 any good? Conflicting reviews on that one but compact. Yamaha YAS-107? Ugly and quite big. Both are all in one units with voice clarity settings.

Budget around £200 but can spend more if it will get me what I need. Really hoping someone has bought something for the same reason and was happy with it?

Thanks

something daft already!! · 6 Dec 2017 at 08:49

You may want to consider a 5:1 option which gives a centre channel dedicated to speech. It should make it easier to hear what is being said if it was recorded in 5:1 or higher.

Armageus · 6 Dec 2017 at 09:04

howiepoohs said:
You may want to consider a 5:1 option which gives a centre channel dedicated to speech. It should make it easier to hear what is being said if it was recorded in 5:1 or higher.

Wouldn't necessarily even need that - majority of AVRs have options to boost the centre channel, even when outputting via stereo 2.0.

Of course adding a centre channel to a Stereo setup also allows you to adjust the individual speaker level as well.

xs2man · 6 Dec 2017 at 09:51

Yep. A reasonably cheap AVR with even just using the 3 front channels should make a massive improvement. When I was first setting up my second 5.1 system, I started out with a B&W M1 for the centre channel. The M1's are a pretty small, discrete speaker, that makes a decent sound. I needed more admittedly, as I was setting up a cinema room, but for the interim period, it did work a treat. Probably be more expensive than you were hoping for though, as I believe they are around £150+ per speaker. Although you can often get decent deals second hand.

At least that way you get actual control over speakers. For example, we had friends round the last few days, but as the kids were asleep, we couldn't watch movies the normal way. But we could reduce the bass and boost the centre, to make explosions quieter and dialogue louder. Worked well, and no kids were awoken.

jpaul · 6 Dec 2017 at 10:15

Armageus said:
Wouldn't necessarily even need that - majority of AVRs have options to boost the centre channel, even when outputting via stereo 2.0.

+1 that was my takeway from earlier similar thread.
I specc'ed some better (than soundbar) quality Q acoustics BT3 speakers for relations to drive from tv optical out continuing with same 2.0 mix from tv

rallyfan1986 · 6 Dec 2017 at 10:24

I was running 2.0 through an AVR, and as you mention, voice clarity wasn't as good as I would have liked, adding a matching centre speaker (3.0 now) improved this a million times over.

For reference I have the Sony DN860 AVR with Monitor Audio MR1 standmounts and the matching MR Centre speaker

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 10:37

Oh no, I was afraid AVR's were going to get mentioned, starts to get expensive and I dont really have the room for it all plus a toddler to ruin the speakers or pull them down.

Are there any soundbar options or is AVR and 3.0 the only route to guarantee what I'm after?

Definitely not interested in 5.1

What I dont get about having a centre channel so 3.0 is that how will every source know I have a dedicated centre channel? Do I set the AVR to 3.0 and it does all the work no matter what the source is?

Armageus · 6 Dec 2017 at 10:39

AVRs can upmix anything that hasn't got a discrete centre channel e.g. stereo sources to create a virtual channel

Edit:
As mentioned above, you don't necessarily even need 3.0 - most amps can boost the centre channel even when outputting to stereo.

My denon has a specific dialog level option, but other options such as Dynamic range compression or even "night mode" can reduce louder parts of the audio source, whilst boosting quieter parts like dialogue.

jpaul · 6 Dec 2017 at 11:02

Also .. what is your movie source ? - not sure whether freeview/freesat channels broadcast 5.1 on all movies anyway ?
... can buy from Amazon too, and send back if they do not meet your needs

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 11:09

Sources are a HTPC with HDMI out for BluRay etc and TV via Optical.

I'm willing to consider any option that improve voice because its very frustrating for me but I dont need it to be loud or room shaking bass, just clarity. Smaller the better too.

I tried Night Mode on my last Soundbar it was awful. Am I better off getting an AVR and 2.0 speakers with a "feature" that improves voice, or an AVR with 3.0 speakers and increase the centre channel or just risk another soundbar

Thanks for the help so far

xs2man · 6 Dec 2017 at 11:12

Relentless81 said:
Oh no, I was afraid AVR's were going to get mentioned, starts to get expensive and I dont really have the room for it all plus a toddler to ruin the speakers or pull them down.

Are there any soundbar options or is AVR and 3.0 the only route to guarantee what I'm after?

Definitely not interested in 5.1

What I dont get about having a centre channel so 3.0 is that how will every source know I have a dedicated centre channel? Do I set the AVR to 3.0 and it does all the work no matter what the source is?

Expensive? Not so much. There is a Onkyo AVR in MM just now for £20. That would do the job you are looking for. And 2 stereo and one centre Cambridge Audio speakers too, coming in at £115 for the 3. So £135 all in for a much nicer sounding set-up than all but the most expensive soundbars, I would wager.

Can't help you with space though. What is your TV sitting on? If it's wall mounted, what are your sources sitting on? Most stands for such equipment can take an AVR with ease. Wall mount the stereo speakers? The person selling the speakers is also selling stands for them for £20, you could always try and negotiate them into the deal for the 3 speakers. Keep the grill on the centre to help prevent curious fingers. I have a 3 & 5 year old. Curious as George. And they have never poked out my tweeters yet. But I do keep my grills on the speakers.

jpaul · 6 Dec 2017 at 12:01

you can do downmix yourself using an htpc with MPC-HC, or probably incorporate in plex/kodi transscoders.

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:13

xs2man said:
Expensive? Not so much. There is a Onkyo AVR in MM just now for £20. That would do the job you are looking for. And 2 stereo and one centre Cambridge Audio speakers too, coming in at £115 for the 3. So £135 all in for a much nicer sounding set-up than all but the most expensive soundbars, I would wager.

Can't help you with space though. What is your TV sitting on? If it's wall mounted, what are your sources sitting on? Most stands for such equipment can take an AVR with ease. Wall mount the stereo speakers? The person selling the speakers is also selling stands for them for £20, you could always try and negotiate them into the deal for the 3 speakers. Keep the grill on the centre to help prevent curious fingers. I have a 3 & 5 year old. Curious as George. And they have never poked out my tweeters yet. But I do keep my grills on the speakers.

Sounds interesting I will have a look. So AVR is the way to go then by the sounds of things. Not one Soundbar mentioned so far!

TV is in a corner on a corner cabinet, its a tall cabinet with cupboard at the bottom and a gap in the middle where the HTPC is with not much room for anything else. TV is sat on top of the cabinet and its not got loads of depth so the TV takes up 90% of the top.

What setup do you have and what do I need to look out for if I want to buy new so that I know I'll be getting 3 channel out no matter what the source is?

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:16

jpaul said:
you can do downmix yourself using an htpc with MPC-HC, or probably incorporate in plex/kodi transscoders.

What do you mean by this please. You mean downmix the 5.1 source to 2.0/3.0 within Kodi settings? I think there is a setting for that but I'm worried it will sound messy and if it would be better for Kodi to output 5.1 and let the AVR downmix or have I got this all completely wrong?

TheVoice · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:16

For your budget you're probably not going to get a soundbar with dedicated centre channels or any particularly intelligent audio processing. My fairly new Samsung HW-MS650 does, but it's not cheap either (although you can still get it for £300 with a bit of effort, see posts in the Black Friday thread). It also has clear voice modes which might be what you're looking for.

rallyfan1986 · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:18

Relentless81 said:
Sources are a HTPC with HDMI out for BluRay etc and TV via Optical.

I'm willing to consider any option that improve voice because its very frustrating for me but I dont need it to be loud or room shaking bass, just clarity. Smaller the better too.

I tried Night Mode on my last Soundbar it was awful. Am I better off getting an AVR and 2.0 speakers with a "feature" that improves voice, or an AVR with 3.0 speakers and increase the centre channel or just risk another soundbar

Thanks for the help so far

I was running my 2.0 setup for almost a year, no settings on the amp would boost vocals to a level I was happy with, I believe the term is "phantom centre" when trying to create a centre speaker in 2.0. This may be different on other AVR's, but i had no luck. The centre speaker made a world of difference.

As for stereo sources (TV watching), the AVR sorts this out for you, although mine seems to be heavily biased on the centre speaker, so centre does 75% of the sounds, the sides do the other 25%

pepp77 · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:32

I have a set of 5.0 Onkyo speakers sitting in my spare room doing nothing, if you can collect them from SE London you are welcome to them to give it a try alongside say that £20 Onkyo amp in the MM.

jpaul · 6 Dec 2017 at 13:43

Relentless81 said:
What do you mean by this please. You mean downmix the 5.1 source to 2.0/3.0 within Kodi settings? I think there is a setting for that but I'm worried it will sound messy and if it would be better for Kodi to output 5.1 and let the AVR downmix or have I got this all completely wrong?

yes, see earlier post -
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31121257
you can make some checkout of impact using ffmpeg, before investing time in kodi config, but no reason it will be worse than an avr (processing power+algorithms on an htpc can match avr)

Relentless81 · 6 Dec 2017 at 14:58

pepp77 said:
I have a set of 5.0 Onkyo speakers sitting in my spare room doing nothing, if you can collect them from SE London you are welcome to them to give it a try alongside say that £20 Onkyo amp in the MM.

Much appreciated, I'm in Manchester but thanks for the offer.

jpaul said:
yes, see earlier post -
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31121257
you can make some checkout of impact using ffmpeg, before investing time in kodi config, but no reason it will be worse than an avr (processing power+algorithms on an htpc can match avr)

Sorry I appreciate the info but thats way beyond my audio knowledge, I just want to know how best to get decent voice and sound clarity from a relatively inexpensive setup and if its best to downmix in the software or let the AVR do it. Are you saying an AVR isnt worth it because a HTPC can do it?

Relentless81 · 7 Dec 2017 at 10:30

Ruling out an AVR I dont have the room for it in my cabinet and the cost is too high after looking last night

Arent there any Active speakers with Optical in from the TV, Satalites or anything small? Cant find anything by googling apart from the Q Acoustics mentioned above but they discontinued