improving Audio : overspent wasted money

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I am never happy with my Audio setup.

My main speaker have been up until 2 days ago, Altec Lansing 955.

I have bought 2 Bose Speaker systems, a JBL Digital processor, and more recently the Corsair and now a logitech, and I am simply never happy.

The Logitech are only the 906 setup and so they were only 300 but I reqally wanted the Edifier 5.1 setup that are shown in OCUK but they are sold out.

My Sound Cards have also take na funky journey. I adore Creative cards. Always have, andespecially the ones that you can get the drive-bay I/O box with and I have had all of them from the SBLiveDrive, to the Recon3D Fatal1ty Pro card, that all have that breakout box, however, with this god damned Windows 10, the Recon 3D had afew niggles and to be honest, I did think it was the card being a douche and so I went and got an Asus Strix Raid Pro.
I have had plenty of issues with this, but lately, I think the issues are almost gone... The issues were that the card would occasionally simply mute itself, just for a second or two, but when you are trying to listen to music or watch a video, this does get on your pip somewhat, but as I said, Ithink that this is now over as I have not hd that happen for a good couple of weeks.

Another pet hate, is that in order to swap from speaker tpo headphone and vice versa, you have to make sure that no audio is playing or it will hang or crash the app... This means that if you launch a game and the missus shouts over that she wants to catch up on emmerdale etc, then you cannot simply plonk the headphones in, or switch them over, you have to stop the game, save it if possible, quite the game switch the audio andrestart the game and load up and hopefully you will be where you left it, and this is just stupid. So naturally, thats gettign right on my bloody goat, and so, I have gone back to creative.
The strix has an external volume box thingy and so I went for a SoundBlaster OMNI. This is an external USB soundcard. ok not card, but you knoiw what I mean... The sound quality was the usual Creative and I think about on par with the Recon3D give or take and so for a short while, I was happyish but then I find that with some things, it seemed to lack a little... for example music that had very deep sub-bass sounds AND extreme treble would then kind of struggle to also play the mid-range and the bass and mis would kind of interfere with each other and you could hear that the bass would be losing its crisp-clean pumping and its as if the bass volume would also drop too... It made the music feel a little see-saw-ish??? - Hell I cant quite describe it, but I know what I mean... The OMNI simply didnt handle the extreme rubbish that I want it to play, like the Recon3D did.

This Asus was semi able to, but again, the music did the same fqailings, just not quite as obcious as the OMNI.

This made me also consider that the speakers may need to be replaced and thats why I just bought the Logitech 906Z... I was wrong.

The Logitech does have Multiple inputs including both Coax and Optical digitals, as wel las stereo and 5.1 Analogs, however, after having a play about, I find that the processing on this, is utter rubbish - maybe its me, butI am not one bit impressed with these pseakers.. The bass is quite muffled and too loud and not clear, while the ttreble is nowhere to be seen, or heard. Thankfully the speakers justconnect with bare-wires and I have been able to add a pair of tweeters and this helps massively, but still...

Anyway, today, I saw a creative Z, the red jobbie, and it looks to have the same chip as the recon3D and the card was only £50 and so I grabbed it threw it in, uninstalled all other sound devices and installed this, only to find that there is not enough difference in quality beterrn using the 5,1 Analog wires ,to using the Optical. Bumboils.

Now, cutting this lot down to its bare essentials, I have gone through half a dozen sound devices and a handful of speaker setups... None have gone to waste though, as I have many other PCs so they all get half decent audio this way, but I am seriously wondering...

I love surround sound, and so I know that this can be seens as a negative, but I love it and I play games that require it, so I am looking for the best quality 5.1 setup there is... What is the best quality sound card that you can buy, and what is the best 5.1 Audio setup that I can buy?

Oh, and yes, I have also used a couple of different Amp/Speaker setups and sure, many will argue that this is the better option for high quality and yes, I agree to that somewhat, but I want 5.1, and I really need to be able to use desktop sized speakers.

I dont know why the hell I find it impossible to simply as a styraight forward question, but thats me and my issues, but if you could please put forward your options/ thoughts then I would be extremely grateful.

Thank you very much.

Oh and one other thing that I have wanted to try out properly, is that I have a fair few USB and Firewire audio devices that claim to be pro, but really shine when played through digital, only to finally realise they are just a load of cack. Given the price I paid, I should be annoyed, but when I look at just how much money I have wasted on everything else, I deserve a smack in the gob really.
 
So I've skim read. But basically you wan't the best surround sound setup?

Do you have a budget? Obviously nothing is going to beat a proper AV amp + Good quality speakers. 'PC' type speakers will always be weak in comparison.

Going AV Amp, means you won't really need a good sound card, just an optical output or even HDMI that can carry sound aswell as video.

Have you thought about going for a decent set of Headphones instead?
 
Yes, I agree with a good Amp etc, but I want 5.1 too! - As I said, I love the surround sound rubbish, plus I game and so I kind of need 5.1 ( to a point )

Headphones.
Yes absolutely, I have already got great headphones, that I am very happy with... I am after the soundcard / 5.1 speakers solution now.
 
I am never happy with my Audio setup.

Bose, JBL, Corsair, Logitech.

SBLiveDrive, Recon3D Fatal1ty, Asus Strix Raid Pro, SoundBlaster OMNI.

Logitech 906Z.

Creative Z.

I think I've identified the problem. :p

What you need is second hand home cinema stuff from eBay, little speakers, and a big AV processor which you can hide somewhere.

Not PC gaming oriented stuff, because it is designed to look flashy and be loud, but not have exceptional audio quality.
 
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Obviously nothing is going to beat a proper AV amp + Good quality speakers. 'PC' type speakers will always be weak in comparison.

Going AV Amp, means you won't really need a good sound card, just an optical output or even HDMI that can carry sound aswell as video.

what he said. until recently I was running an Onkyo 7.1 receiver (running from onboard optical) and KEF 5.1 set and was pretty darn good for PC surround.
 
I think I've identified the problem. :p

What you need is second hand home cinema stuff from eBay, little speakers, and a big AV processor which you can hide somewhere.

Not PC gaming oriented stuff, because it is designed to look flashy and be loud, but not have exceptional audio quality.

Here is the real issue...

I 100% agree with you!

I am a genuine bell end, who simply keeps buying pap and then moaning like a fairy on why the hell I have just spent on yet more junk.

I na semi-lucky way, that is not junk as such, its good stuff, and my Living room TV, and the bedroom Media Centre have great speaker setups now, and my other PCs all have nice speaker setups, they are just not the best that there is out there...

I just dont know what the best is!

So, since you know that this lot is rubbish, tell me what I do need to buy?

You also need to understand, that I dont give a mokeys what it looks like... The Altec Lansing setup that I am finding it hard to beat, I have owned for many many many years, have always been stuffed behind my monitor, the center is up on the top of the shelf and the rears are on the floor soft of stuffed behind a pile of CDs on the left and behind a box of junk on the right... Looks in my house is a laughable idea. you cannot see ANY of my coputer desk under the piles of junk thats strewn all over the place... looking at it, there is a home made box with a few dozen flashdrives, some tools, some of my meds, biuts of wires, some papers of random origin, a CPu cooler, and the list goes on, so for you to eve nthink that I go for looks, is simply laughable.

Plus, a few years ago, I bought a JBL Dolby Pro Surround sound cimena grade amp, that has multiple inputs, it cost me £1799 for the amplifier and I did not rate it all that highly at all. Again, for TV and movies etc, it was out of this world, and it was nothing short of amazing, however, for music from the computer, it sounded plasticy, there was simply nothing there... Sure, that was probably the speakers, but at over a gand and a half, I dont expect to also change the speakers from the supplied ones, just to make it sound better for use on something its not designed for.

So, we know what I have done.
We also know what direction we need to go.

So any recommended choices of what to actually buy?
 
For PC 5.1 speakers the choice is very slim indeed. Either some cheap ones or the Z906. Edifier's will likely offer similar kind of sound quality you can get from a decent home theatre 5.1 speaker package, but sadly looks like the S550 and S760 just aren't available in the UK any more.

I guess because they just didn't sell well enough to keep stock as for most gamer's cheaper 5.1 is good enough, and for many wanting to spend £500 on a 5.1 set up, they would just buy a home theatre set up, which gives much more options.

If the Z906 is not much cop and the Edifier's aren't available, then there are the Logitech Z5500. Better than the Z906 apparently, but can only be bought second hand now. Other than those, then that leaves an AV receiver and the best 5.1 speaker package you can afford.

For a decent budget 5.1 speaker package and AV receiver, you're probably looking at £450-£700. Tannoy TFX 5.1 for £200 or Wharfedale DX1 SE 5.1 for £350. Q Acoustics 2000i 5.1 would be better again for £450. With the AV receiver costing around £250. That's without the cost of the cables.

Now we come to some stumbling blocks of sorts. Given your experience with the very expensive Dolby set up you've described above, this is why it's always best to go listen to audio gear first; especially when spending hundreds to maybe a thousand or more. A particular system might sound great to person A, but may not to person B.

The stumbling block of course though, is your situation and I know this is not possible for you. That leaves just buying something going on the opinion of others. Sometimes works out great, sometimes not; but what else can be done?

The second is how you've described how your Altec Lansing speakers are set up. To be honest, I'm somewhat loathe to recommend you spend maybe up to £700, when the placing of the speakers is less than ideal. When spending that kind of money, you'd want a good first impression and having speakers plonked in strange places, isn't going to help with that.
 
Are you anywhere near London?
They have some 5.1 kef eggs in the cash converters in Kentish town, for £140 which is a steal. Those plus an ht amp would be a great shout
 
I'm using a Yamaha AVR and a £1000 stereo pair of speakers for the PC audio system. Sounds great.

Simply buy a dedicated AVR and decent 5.1 speaker set, you're looking at around £600 for the speakers & sub or so, if not more.
 
Go and get the eggs! :eek: That's great. :D

I got my Wharfedale Diamond 9.2's and Marantz PM5003 for £100 from a cash converters. Makes me wonder what the poor soul parted with them for. :(

Got an Arcam A75 from there for £20 as well... And some M-Audio AV40's for £5...
 
:eek:

I better pop into my local one and see what I can find!

Might have been AV30's. But even so. Yeah there are some mental bargains in some of these shops. :p

I'm actually considering going on Saturday to have a browse, if its still there. :)
 
Gradually build it. First you need a good DAC that will take TV out optical and pc in USB. I chose the Chord Mojo at £399 which sounds so much better than the DACS on the AV amps.

Then once you have this you already have a headphone system and just need to run an analog cable from it to an AV amp, something second hand would be fine but make sure it was once top of the line and don't worry about hdmi sockets or new technology as you're going to be optical only for sound having invested in an awesome dac. Something like an old Pioneer LX series is PHAT.

Just get the best set of used hifi speakers you can get for your budget to start with. That'll do for a couple of months until you can afford a back pair and a centre. Monitor Audios old S1-S8 series sound amazing and are super cheap 2nd hand. A pair of those and an old lx is probably better than any speakers you've ever owned for £250 tops total.

Do not skimp on the subwoofer. Get one on credit if needed. BK Monolith or SVS are solid and although huge they really are different to the crap you get in any 5.1 kit.

What I've said here will blow even those KEF eggs out of the water. If there was one part that you do not spend less on it is the DAC or the subwoofer. The dac allows easy switching from pc to tv and headphone too.

Ps. I ran the optical from the tv to the amp for everything, pc, sky, consoles. It is a £1000 amp and it was rubbish sound. The chord mojo was a massive difference.
 
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Cool plenty of things to chew over here.

I used to have the Z5500 setup, but the controler kept playing up and it kept getting on my nerves. it was a really nice setup.

I think its time that I did splash out on a really decent DAC. I know its what I should have doneright from the off.

My Atari Falcon is my Music computer ( yeah I iknow but shurrup, I love it ) and thats using Yamaha studio monitors that give a beautiful clean sound that I really like, but of corse thats standard Stereo 2.0

These 906 speakers are not awful by any stretch. I have a pair of silly little tweeters that I have added to them, and it has helped a small bit, admittedly, I have to really listen to notice, and so maybe some better tweeters would be a better option, and I will see what I can do tomorrow.

Agreed on the position of the speakers... The main L/R speakers were at the side of my creen, and the back L/R were on the floor, and the center was above me on the shelf, and they were not at first hidden or covered, they have just moved over time to kind of behind the monitor and bits of junk hascovered the rear speakers, and so what I really should do, is mount these speakers all in better positions and give this setup a fairt chance before giving up.

There is no doubt either, that even if I decide to go back to the Altec Lansing setup, simply replacing those soeakers would also be a great help actually... The altec Lansing has only got the 3x3.5mm 5.1 jacks and no digital input or even any volume control or headphone Jacks... This is why I found the Creative LiveDrive boxes so handy... The 906 does have a headphone sopcket though, as does the Omni and the Strix, but they are now off this PC.

maybe if I just mount the Front L/R speakers on the wall on the side of the monitor I would have a huge improvement in the audio from doing just that alone?

Argh, Im just being an over thinking idiot now...
 
Oddly, I came into this thread intrigued.

I too have a Z5500 setup and will be in mourning the day it goes to AV heaven.

Sure, to some it is not great but to me, it is the best piece of PC related equipment I have purchased, probably EVER owing to how long it has lasted.

I am dreading having to replace it. So flaming versatile.

Best of luck op, I hope you find peace with your new setup.

Z5500 - RIP
 
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I've said this many times now, but today's selection of soundcards is disappointing at best. I have yet to find a decent, cost-effective replacement for my Soundblaster XtremeMusic - the Soundblaster Z is laughable to the say the least.

The closest alternative I've found is the Asus Xonar D2X, but these are pricey.
 
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Discontinued is probably why. I think the Asus' new Strix cards will replace some of the Xonar range, but they look like a step backwards in some ways. Similar to Creative with the Z range; the replacements are seen by quite a few people as not as good as what came before. Strix cards have been particularly bad with Windows 10. Not sure if there's been any improvement recently.
 
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