In Ceiling Speakers - Only really for Spotify - And general Home Automation

Soldato
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I'm tagging @lucid in right from the start here, and am likely to touch on details outside of AV so either reign me in, or tell me to go pay someone instead of taking up too much time! Like wise i'm not sure if part of this belongs more in the Home and Garden sub forum.

We're currently around 95% sure that we'll be building a house having not seen any that fits exactly what we're after. This means i can get exited about a lot of built in stuff that has never really been possible in previous houses without extensive amounts of work/cost.

Here is a likely finished build render, although i may work on trying to get some more "classic design" touches on the outside as i'm not a huge fan of white box houses. I think they'll age poorly.

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Interior floorplan

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Having seen a finished example, i know that the "Lavadero" will likely include a server cabinet which will contain batteries for the solar system, but will have space for any switches needed too (heat permitting).

Ideally the plan would be to have a drop down projector in front of the sofa. There'll be a tv unit which will likely have our soundbar on it. I don't see a need to replace that. I'm then unsure whether to ceiling mount a projector or just have a short through one. Likewise i might also just stick with our existing tv. It's 65" and is perfectly fine (maybe both - Projector for films and tv for general back ground use. Budget will likely come into play here as we have a lot of "wants" for this house which will likely stretch the budget as it is.


Ultimately the crucial thing would be for ceiling speakers. Likely with 2 zones, the kitchen area and the terrace. I plan to have an actual music room/office and so will have a main hifi in there and so it'll only be for background music. Whether the soundbar by the tv could be used for the kitchen i'm not sure, but feels like it could end up being overly loud.

The last time i had ceiling speakers, i wired them into a small Denon DM38 which was connected to a Squeezebox. I only had 1 zone and so it was fairly simple. However i imagine things have moved on a lot since then. We'd also only probably be using Spotify as a source. So unsure if there's just some kind of powered Ceiling speakers you can group into Zones and do away with anything overly complicated?

We plan for the house to have electric shutters on windows so there's going to be an element of home automation involved for lighting etc, so unsure if there's a complete solution here, but ultimately i'd like to avoid having too many separate systems in play where one thing controls one thing, and something else controls another.

I should also point out 3 things.

1. I'm cheap
2. The builder is unlikely to be an expert in this
3. I like to do things myself

As such i'm likely to attempt most of the install/setup myself so will likely be jumping all over the place as can probably be gleamed from this opening post. I have a lot of "wants" and need steering in a correct direction. I assume there are better solutions than just having lots of things which sync into Google Home?
 
Looks like an amazing project! Good luck with it!

The simplest option would surely be just to use a sound bar for music as well, but I suppose if you're building from scratch there's little to be lost by putting in ceiling speakers., especially if you're wanting outside speakers too. A quick google brought up this device, which won't set the world on fire, but sounds like it would fit the bill ok. I'm sure there are many options, but if it's for music only (and not bothered about getting the TV sound through it) you definitely want to keep it simple.

 
Looks like an amazing project! Good luck with it!

The simplest option would surely be just to use a sound bar for music as well, but I suppose if you're building from scratch there's little to be lost by putting in ceiling speakers., especially if you're wanting outside speakers too. A quick google brought up this device, which won't set the world on fire, but sounds like it would fit the bill ok. I'm sure there are many options, but if it's for music only (and not bothered about getting the TV sound through it) you definitely want to keep it simple.


Cheers, that would work but i think i need something "smarter", as effectively i want my wife to be able to stream from her phone on the fly to wherever she wants, rather than using an amp to switch output speakers etc.

Admitadly this isn't cheap, but it's a speaker which is Airplay certified which seems to fit the bill.


I think i probably need to do lots of reading around Home Automation to see what is/isn't possible (within budget) and how simple things can be made to be. Anything that means switching 3 different things will just annoy my wife!
 
Cheers, that would work but i think i need something "smarter", as effectively i want my wife to be able to stream from her phone on the fly to wherever she wants, rather than using an amp to switch output speakers etc.

Admitadly this isn't cheap, but it's a speaker which is Airplay certified which seems to fit the bill.


I think i probably need to do lots of reading around Home Automation to see what is/isn't possible (within budget) and how simple things can be made to be. Anything that means switching 3 different things will just annoy my wife!

You could potentially use something like an Echo Input or Apple TV, but that amplifier has bluetooth built in anyway which should allow smartphone streaming. Could even use two echo dots and name them kitchen and garden and plug them into the "dumb" amplifier. The concern with the smart in room speaker is linking them. I'm not sure how Spotify Connect would deal with all those.

Lots of options, but I do tend to overcomplicate things.
 
You could potentially use something like an Echo Input or Apple TV, but that amplifier has bluetooth built in anyway which should allow smartphone streaming. Could even use two echo dots and name them kitchen and garden and plug them into the "dumb" amplifier. The concern with the smart in room speaker is linking them. I'm not sure how Spotify Connect would deal with all those.

Lots of options, but I do tend to overcomplicate things.

Me too, and then any attempt to simplify things ultimately ends up making it more complicated. I remember my wifes distress at wanting to plug her phone in for background music and having to wait between switching a Tube pre-amp on and then the power amp and any attempt with Logitch Harmony remotes didn't make things much easier.

I have been looking at Control 4 which i imagine is the creme de la creme, but my god the cost is eye watering.
 
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I think you should start from a top-down design direction rather than bottom-up. The reason is to avoid wasting time with dead ends. These are the products that initially look interesting, but the more you get to understand the tech then you realise they fall short in some major aspect such as integration or the formats they'll support.

For example, the Lithe speakers: Imagine you have a World Cup party. You have a bunch of friends round to watch the match. It's playing on the main TV, and you want the sound on the terrace too. Can it do this? Will the sound be in sync? I'm not knocking the Lithe product; just pointing out that it might be perfect if all you want is music from online streaming sources, but maybe you need more than that.

Both Control4 and RTI have whole home control systems that can pull together AV, multiroom, light control, CCTV & security, HVAC and remote access under one umbrella. There are other brands too if you want to go even higher-end.

To get an idea of the sorts of things possible, have a read of Hidden Wires and SmartHome magazines. The case studies should be useful. I have to say though that these won't be DIY solutions.

Once you have some idea of what can be done, and the budgets required to achieve it, then you can start to look at what you really need.
 
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I think you should start from a top-down design direction rather than bottom-up. The reason is to avoid wasting time with dead ends. These are the products that initially look interesting, but the more you get to understand the tech then you realise they fall short in some major aspect such as integration or the formats they'll support.

For example, the Lithe speakers: Imagine you have a World Cup party. You have a bunch of friends round to watch the match. It's playing on the main TV, and you want the sound on the terrace too. Can it do this? Will the sound be in sync? I'm not knocking the Lithe product; just pointing out that it might be perfect if all you want is music from online streaming sources, but maybe you need more than that.

Both Control4 and RTI have whole home control systems that can pull together AV, multiroom, light control, security, HVAC and remote access under one umbrella. There are other brands too if you want to go even higher-end.

To get an idea of the sorts of things possible, have a read of Hidden Wires and SmartHome magazines. The case studies should be useful. I have to say though that these won't be DIY solutions.

Once you have some idea of what can be done, and the budgets required to achieve it, then you can start to look at what you really need.

Thanks, i actually found this thread on AV Forums so have been doing some reading through that, the Denon Heos amp looks to do the trick for me.

I'll get a list of "wants" together when we start firming up plans, but i think your use case of the world cup party is likely a step beyond where i imagine i'd want. The main thing would be a centralised control for lights, shutters, cameras, music, gates/doorbell.
Things like the house tracking you from room to room playing music, whilst very cool feels like a step too far, and when we have a long wish list as it is, i will need to reign this in (Gonna get a resistance jet in the pool so i don't have to do "laps" :D)
 
Ah brilliant thanks. I was never sure whether here of Home & Garden was best and have seen her post around in there.

With trying to tie in the electric shutters and also have some displays for cameras at the gates etc it may be best in there in all reality.
Somebody rang....? :D

Ok, here's my tuppence worth.

Two rules I'd bear in mind for this sort of thing:
1 - Speakers are very mature technology - ie you could still listen on speakers from 1980 and have decent sound/audio
2 - Streaming/multi-audio is still pretty immature - ie codecs/wifi standards/bluetooth standards/approaches have changed every 2-3 years for the last 15 years.
3 - Big companies will act cynically and unhelpfully to you - think Sonos ending support, Apple/Google/Samsung creating isolated platforms etc

So for a 'permanent' install, I'd try and make things as adaptable as possible and detach the speakers from the streaming tech if poss.

To that end, I've personally gone with Lithe Audio speakers with lots of options (ie aux, bluetooth etc), so I can future proof as much as poss, the speaker will still be perfectly adequate in ten years - even though bluetooth, wifi etc will be on totally different standards. I've then plugged in Google Chromecasts to do all the multi-room, casting, spotify, home assistant integrations.

These work perfectly and integrate into everything I could want (vs the more closed ecosystems from Sonos et al).

In ten years time if I need Wifi 9, Bluetooth 7 or some unknown solution, then I can swap out the puck and plug in a new version by various adapters/converters and so on. Not saying this is perfect and guaranteed, just a lot more robust - and cost wise, it means I'm swapping an encoder/network device, not an entire speaker that's otherwise perfectly fine, so much cheaper.

Good example of this is there's now Wiim audio devices that I might consider if doing today:

This adds USB C, 24bit audio and lots of other features - for me, swap a device in seconds and away I go...

So in short, I'd find 1) good speakers with lots of sensible ports and 2) find a multi-room audio device that gives you the connectivity and then crack on!

And of course, using something like home assistant will give you complete control and make your home super smart!

Hope this helps!
 
Somebody rang....? :D

Snip

That's brilliant and a great point. I think ultimately we are unlikely to need the fanciness of what a lot of home automation brings. I just need sufficient infrastructure in place to give me what i want and keeping it simple gives me that. The main thing is just ensuring we have sufficient cabling in place for network cables and plenty of wifi access points to keep a reliable signal.
 
If you have two speakers in each room, you could use wiim mini for each room, that goes into two channels of the six channel power amplifier (so 3 rooms, 2 x 2 speakers)

Yeah, they look pretty good. I'm looking forward to trying to spec everything up.

I'm also fairly happy to have come across the Shelly brand. Their switches/bulbs seem pretty good value.
 
Also means you have seperate zones rather than one source for whole house, and can be separately controlled.

Personally though rather than ceiling (which I'd only use for atmos) I'd use small bookshelf speakers, like a pair on top of a fireplace mantlepiece etc. That'll sound better than a pair of ceiling speakers.

Pair of Wharfedale Diamon 9.0 won't take up much space for a bedroom 2.0 system.
 
I think ultimately we are unlikely to need the fanciness of what a lot of home automation brings.

Of course, and you'll never need a more powerful GPU, replace the wifi etc etc... :cry:

As I say, I do the same, but design for me to be proved wrong - saves a lot of grief in the long run! Eg if you're building, it's a great idea to put all the cable runs in conduit throughout the walls, so you can easily fish new cables through if you were proved wrong and did need those CAT10 cables that every bit of hardware now requires in ten years time etc...!

Shelly stuff is good, works really nicely so can recommend!

One of the nice bits of all this stuff is the fact that things like Home Assistant can connect it all as one thing - eg you turning on the TV can automatically set the speakers to surround mode, dim the lights to TV mode, close the blinds etc and then when you switch the TV off, it can set it all back - makes things very slick and you never need to fiddle with apps, buttons and so on again!
 
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