Insurance Rant

[mattcrane]

So wife's Astra 2001 Sxi Engine Management Light came on Friday on her way home from work she phones her mechanic gets it booked in for Saturday morning to be looked at/diagnosed.

Sat she gets home and says it will be £800 to fix as its an engine out kinda problem so tbh the car really isn't worth it. In perfect condition they sell for about £400-500 and hers is no way anywhere near perfect

But the good news is that her mechanic who is a family member knows of a Citroen Picasso 2.0 HDi going for £350 with 12month MOT that he has serviced/maintained for the last few years so knows its a good motor.

Great we say so she then phones her insurance company to get a quote.

SXi she was paying £350 full comp protected with legal cover etc

Quote for Citroen Picasso £800

So while she is on the phone I do the old Compare the Market and get a quote from the AA £250 fully comp protected and legal cover plus as she is an AA member she gets a further 10% discount.

Guess who the new car will be covered by

I really don't get how her current company have the audacity to try and charge her £800 when loads of companies on comparison sites were around the £250 mark.

Sorry for the rant

 

[Zefan]

It's because they know a certain amount of people won't bother to look around for other quotes. It's the same with insurance renewals. Did you return to the original insurance company with the news that they'd been beaten on price? They would have likely come down a lot.

 

[Armageus]

And also because they know that mid term in your policy (especially for younger drivers, or with no/low number of years no-claims), you are unlikely to cancel and move to a different insurer, and lose out on finishing the year for no-claims.

 

[mattcrane]

Did you return to the original insurance company with the news that they'd been beaten on price? They would have likely come down a lot.

Yep she spoke to them this morning to say she wouldn't be renewing with them as her policy was due for renewal tomorrow anyway.

When they asked why and she told them the price difference they just stated that they couldn't/wouldn't be able to quote anywhere near the comparison sites.

 

[AtreuS]

Sometimes its just the underwriters simply not wanting that kind of car on their books. I recently changed from a focus 1.8 ( mk1 ) to a ST220 and tesco who i had been with for over 10 years simply could not offer a good quote. The lad tried everything but the simple fact was the underwriters did not want to cover a performance car.

In the end i had to leave them, and go with hastings premier. Although the cars you mentioned seem pretty normal, so maybe they just hoped you would cave in and pay to avoid the hassle of changing insurers!

 

[cully4299]

I was 19 when crashed my 1.3 ka(4 seats) changed to a 1,4 206 ( 5 seats) and including admin free for the 5 months cover to be transferred they charged me £116. your wife's insurance company is having a laugh

 

[hlxbravo]

All insurance company bosses should be strung up by their curly bits. I have a 14 plated A4 S line, approximately a little over £600 (thanks to the wife buminpg it) anyhooo, she now says she's not that comfortable driving it, so we have looked at an A4 Avant S line, due to the flat backend, as such, they want a little over £1200 !! So for a joke I decided to see how much an RS6 valued at 35k would be....£952. I really cannot fathom how these people work.

 

[Iron-man]

They are unfortunately a necessary evil, I always shop around but as someone said above probably 90% of people would just pay and not shop around.

 

[P.B]

It's because they know a certain amount of people won't bother to look around for other quotes. It's the same with insurance renewals. Did you return to the original insurance company with the news that they'd been beaten on price? They would have likely come down a lot.

this is what I did, checked online and asked them to beat it which they did buy a good 10-15%

 

[P.B]

All insurance company bosses should be strung up by their curly bits. I have a 14 plated A4 S line, approximately a little over £600 (thanks to the wife buminpg it) anyhooo, she now says she's not that comfortable driving it, so we have looked at an A4 Avant S line, due to the flat backend, as such, they want a little over £1200 !! So for a joke I decided to see how much an RS6 valued at 35k would be....£952. I really cannot fathom how these people work.

this means you must get an rs6 due to cheap insurance

 

[muon]

Who says the AA is actually making any money at £250?

Your current company might just think you are more of a risk than the AA.

 

[DereksDontRun]

insurance costs and the variation between companies is a complete mystery...

Mazda 6 MPS (260bhp stock, on a modified policy and declared about 280bhp) with SKY insurance at about £300.
Changed to MX5 2.0 (160bhp) and SKY wanted about £600 for it - twice the price for about 2/3 the power. So moved to Adrian Flux for about £450.
Changed to M135i (326bhp) and Adrian Flux wanted £1200 but Admiral were only £360. When I asked them to match the price they claimed I was being offered a really good price at something like £950 and would I like it - jog on...

So, I'm completely confused... The MX5 is a far more common car than the MPS or M135i, so are there more recorded crashes/claims against it per year and thus the higher premium? But, if it's more common then the % of claims against cars on the road must be lower, and the parts must be more common/cheaper? Why on earth is a M135i with twice the power (and value) than a MX5 cheaper to insure - is the thought I'll be more careful driving it (that doesn't mean others on the road will be though)?

It's like all the companies have random number generators and we're just stuck with whatever the computer squirts out with no justification to the price.

 

[iaind]

Insurance isn't based on how safeley a guy in an office thinks you might drive a car or its bhp. It's a complicated mathematical calculation based on historical statistics. There's absolutely no point trying to apply too much logic too it as you won't find it

 

[Armageus]

Insurance isn't based on how safeley a guy in an office thinks you might drive a car or its bhp. It's a complicated mathematical calculation based on historical statistics. There's absolutely no point trying to apply too much logic too it as you won't find it

Exactly this.

So, I'm completely confused... The MX5 is a far more common car than the MPS or M135i, so are there more recorded crashes/claims against it per year and thus the higher premium? But, if it's more common then the % of claims against cars on the road must be lower,

The % of claims is likely to be similar for all cars, lets say 1 in 20 people claim for arguments sake. If there are 1 million MX5s thats 50000 claims, if there are only 100000 M135is, thats only 5000 claims

and the parts must be more common/cheaper?

The costs of the parts isn't necessarily going to be a huge factor - whilst a BMW may cost more to repair generally than an MX5, using the above made up figures, you are potentially looking at a 10 fold increase in Admin costs (e.g. Car hire, legal cover etc), just as a result of the claims, before even considering any repairs.

Why on earth is a M135i with twice the power (and value) than a MX5 cheaper to insure - is the thought I'll be more careful driving it (that doesn't mean others on the road will be though)?

MX5 is likely also easier to steal which will have an effect on premium.

so we have looked at an A4 Avant S line, due to the flat backend, as such, they want a little over £1200 !! So for a joke I decided to see how much an RS6 valued at 35k would be....£952. I really cannot fathom how these people work.

As above with the MX5 - the A4 is a lot more common and the total number of claims will be higher (e.g. for incidental things like carpark dings, reversing into things etc). Whilst RS6 high value payouts (e.g. write off) are probably more likely, lower value payouts are probably less common due to owners being more careful on the whole.

 

[Third Opinion]

My wife changed from an Alfa 156 2.0 JTS to a Mercedes C-Class Auto.

The insurance was less so we received a refund. On renewal it was £100 more than the 156. As the 156 was still under our ownership we phoned up for a quote and it went down again?

Work that one out?

 

[Armageus]

My wife changed from an Alfa 156 2.0 JTS to a Mercedes C-Class Auto.

The insurance was less so we received a refund. On renewal it was £100 more than the 156. As the 156 was still under our ownership we phoned up for a quote and it went down again?

Work that one out?

Insurance market isn't static - it's fluid as the background figures relating to claims and risk change.

There have also been occasions when big changes have been made, e.g. when insurers weren't allowed to charge differently for men and women, and when the insurance premium tax rate changes.

 

[mrgubby]

Insurance costs are based on maths without the slightest hint of logic, my motorbike insurance went up 30% because I damaged my car hitting a fox while on holiday !

 

[iaind]

Insurance costs are based on maths without the slightest hint of logic, my motorbike insurance went up 30% because I damaged my car hitting a fox while on holiday !

No, it's based on the most logical thing possible, statistical data. They don't look at WHY things are higher or lower risk as it makes no difference. They just calculate the risk based on a huge amount of data. Unfortunately it's the WHY that people seem to be unable to let go of as your post shows.

Having a previous claim, even a non fault one increases the statistical likelihood of having another. It doesn't matter why that's the case, but it's pretty clear that it is.

It's in the insurance companies interest to get this stuff right too - it's a highly competitive market and the only way they can make money and remain competitive is by assessing risk as accurately as accurately as possible. Sometimes it doesnt even seem fair, but it's the fairest way to do things on the whole - the biggest downside is most people's complete lack of comprehension of how it works

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I used to work for the largest insurer doing systems developments, mainly finance ones but also some bigger projects so i worked with all the departments, claims, underwriting etc

The actuaries are the guys mainly in charge of understanding the business. Then marketing get hold of it

Anyway I remember a good discussion with the senior claims guy about it. He said there was quite a low correlation between the real data and what the market would accept. So for example deemed low risk, married middle age (35-45) man, wife and 2 kids driving a mondeo, reality they were actually at least mid risk due to high likelyhood of a reasonable amount of smallish claims, probably triggered by being distracted by the kids in the back. Generally low appetite for expensive good tyres etc

Example of what the market deemed high risk but were actually in fact stastically not, youngish single males with high performance cars, so in the 25-35 age range, driving things such as M3. Typically into cars, servicing them properly, buying the best tyres etc, likely to also be interested in driving rather than treating it as a necessity, also likely to have big issues getting insurance with a significant claim due to car/age combo so tended to generally drive well most of the time as they couldnt aford to have an accident. When they did though it tended to be big, but the overall cost to the ins co wasn't high compared to the premiums

 

[muon]

Insurance isn't based on how safeley a guy in an office thinks you might drive a car or its bhp. It's a complicated mathematical calculation based on historical statistics. There's absolutely no point trying to apply too much logic too it as you won't find it

They are one and the same thing. The pricing analyst uses historic data to inform their estimate of risk. Statistical models aren't magic, they are simply generalised linear models, with their predictions used to inform pricing.

So yes, it is just a guy in the office estimating what a higher bhp means for risk, what different ages mean, what different experience levels mean etc. That is why prices differ so much between companies.

But don't take my comment to mean it is unsophisticated.