insurance - theft and non fault

DereksDontRun · 15 Apr 2019 at 08:04

I think there's a couple people knowledgeable about insurance, so I thought I'd post to see if I can get any help...

My car was stolen a few weeks ago, the insurance has paid out and that's that. Still waiting on GAP, but that's a different story.

I phoned my broker to get some quotes of a few options I was looking at, to see what the damage would be and they said that it's marked as a fault claim (which is what I was expecting), but that some thefts get changed to non-fault, and that I should chat/plead with the underwriter. So, what circumstances would it change to a non-fault?

The police have recovered the car - it's being processed by forensics and all I've been told is there's some slight damage to the plastic grill and bonnet, so (in their eyes) it's very reparable - doesn't really matter to me, as it's now property of the insurance as they've paid me. But, presumably this means the claim cost is now potentially a lot less, as they have an asset to recoup some $.

To make matters worse, it seems like my broker has shafted me... I had 12 years NCB and whenever I've asked for insurance I've always asked for protected NCB (stupid not to) and DOC (as once in a blue moon it's helped). Now we're processing the claim it looks like I've not got the protected NCB

Yes, I should have checked the policy - but for the life of me, i don't think I ever received it. I've checked my filing cabinet for a paper copy and I have last year's renewal letter, but no actual policy and I've not got an email. I had to ask the broker to email it to me at the start of the claim. Sure, I probably should have chased them, but with busy life, I obviously forgot. I can only assume they dropped the NCB bonus when I asked them to price match a considerably cheaper online quote, and I failed to check what they've scrimped on. So, if I've now got a claim and no protected ncb, am I now back at 0, or 2 (broker said it's possibly 2) - or should I explain to the underwriter I never received the policy and feel my broker has obviously not included something I originally requested? I can't imagine there's any wiggle room here and I'll have to put it down to experience - but is there any chance/point of raising this in case?

Any thoughts?

fezster · 15 Apr 2019 at 08:53

Not sure about the "no fault" part - when my car was stolen, I was told that it's a fault claim as the money cannot be recovered from anybody.

On the NCB, you should only lose 2 years if this is your first claim: https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/how-the-no-claims-bonus-works

muon · 20 Apr 2019 at 16:35

fezster said:
Not sure about the "no fault" part - when my car was stolen, I was told that it's a fault claim as the money cannot be recovered from anybody.

On the NCB, you should only lose 2 years if this is your first claim: https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/how-the-no-claims-bonus-works

Well actually if the OP was with Admiral it would go from 12 to 3.

Even if you do have to claim for an accident that was your fault, you could still keep some of your NCB. If you make one claim during your insurance period, you'll lose two years of the Bonus.

So, if you have five or more years NCB, it will reduce to three years at renewal.

This is what most insurance companies do. There are a few that only drop it to 4 if you have 9 or more.

The fact the Broker is saying 2 also means this supposed expert, hasn't got a clue what he/she is talking about. You only get to 2 after having a claim with 4 years NCB.

DereksDontRun · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:10

sadly, ERS think its fair/correct to drop from 12 to 2...
[url]https://www.ers.com/assets/img/documents/Non-Standard-Car_170718_163357.pdf[/url] page 19 here.

Well, I'm certainly not using Adrian Flux again, and probably ERS. I'm 100% sure AF removed my protected no claims addon when I asked them to price match, as I know I asked for it (along with DOC cover) when I got them to quote originally, before getting other quotes and calling them back to price match. I checked i still had DOC cover (as I've caught that being dropped in the past), but didn't think to ask about the PNCD. Looking through my old paperwork and a previous policy from them had PNCD and my present doesn't, so it's been dropped at renewal somehow (with a change of underwriter) - and there's no way I'm going to ask for it to be dropped with 10+ years NCD... Yes, I'm 95% certain I never got a copy of the policy as they would claim it's on their portal, but as I'm unable to access their portal (it just wont email me a password reset to my email address), it doesn't help. Yeah, I'm frustrated, but just going to write a line under it and move on. At least I'm over 40 with IAM membership discount, so 2years NCD isn't too horrific, but the principle is annoying.

ERS, while being fine, have been glacial with the payout, but at least they have... Just I'm left with a salty taste due to the 12 -> 2 NCD drop compared with other underwriters.

My 1st claim in 22years driving and it was a theft, so it doesn't really feel like it was my actions, choice or fault - I even tried asking ERS for less of a NCD drop as the police now have the car (and it's "only" got a scuffed bumper and cracked £80 plastic grill) so the claim cost is significantly less. But no... it's either full 12->2 year drop, or no drop at all if they can recoup all their costs - but I'm guessing that even if the car is pristine, it's presumably now destined for an auction house so will never get list price... plus any overheads they will add to the claim for claimhander time, etc.

muon · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:17

Fair enough, looks like I was wrong. But that is atrocious for ERS to drop down to 2. That means after 2 claims you have gone down to 0 NCB!

All the large insurers would still leave you with 1 or 2 NCB after a couple of claims.

singularity · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:22

If your previous policy had protected no claims and you asked them to price match, then I would expect you to have protected no claims.
Not sure what you can do though, maybe try the ombudsmen or something.

[TW]Fox · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:49

muon said:
Fair enough, looks like I was wrong. But that is atrocious for ERS to drop down to 2. That means after 2 claims you have gone down to 0 NCB!

I mean it is called 'no claims' bonus rather than 'a few claims bonus'.

DereksDontRun · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:52

yeah, i can't deny that it makes a mockery of the term no claims bonus to be reduced to anything above 0...

StevieP · 20 Apr 2019 at 21:54

Sadly it's a no-claims bonus, not a no-blame bonus!

Every insurer will affect your discount if they have to pay out so unless you are willing to withdraw the claim and reimburse any outlay, they are well within their rights to do so!

Your only possibility is to see whether they have a recording of the last renewal call - I'd challenge them to say that you didn't explicitly give them the authority to reduce your cover no matter what they were doing to match the other quote!

Having said that though, even if you were on protected NCD, it doesn't actually stop your premium going up!

dvinell · 20 Apr 2019 at 22:02

Even, so it's pretty cr*ppy that "car got stolen" gets counted as a fault claim.
What are you supposed to do ... stand outside next to your car with a cricket bat?

muon · 20 Apr 2019 at 22:18

[TW]Fox said:
I mean it is called 'no claims' bonus rather than 'a few claims bonus'.

Semantics doesn't win you any points.

Someone who has a claim after accruing 5+ years NCB is different from someone who has claimed after accruing 1 years NCB.

Under your proposal an insurance company would be blind to this if they went to zero. All they would see is 1 claim in the last year and 0 NCB for both people.

It is for this reason it steps down gradually. ERS by stepping down so quickly is screwing you over, as other insurance companies will assume what normally happens in the market when setting a price.

StevieP · 20 Apr 2019 at 22:56

dvinell said:
Even, so it's pretty cr*ppy that "car got stolen" gets counted as a fault claim.
What are you supposed to do ... stand outside next to your car with a cricket bat?

The terminology of it being "fault" isn't strictly true I suppose but a claim had been made and the insurer has made a loss - in this instance you can't really complain with losing an element of your no-claims bonus!

If you've chosen to claim then by definition you shouldn't expect to retain full no-claims bonus!

As I said before, the irony is that even if you had protected bonus, this doesn't stop your premium increasing anyway!