Intel Dual core - How can I tell?

[FatRakoon]

I have just bought a P4 3.6 for a song.

The thing is, that although its not hot or anything, I am a bit dubious about it all because of a few things...

First of all, its a P4 3.6 so its not too bad ( Slower than all my AMDs however, but its full of junk like Norton & AOL etc so its needing an F&R to get rid of that crud ), however, a few thigns I need to know.

This is the first intel I have had for a hell of a long time now, and I was wondering how can I tell if this CPU is a duel core or not? Its got the hyperthreadign thingy, and in the DevManager, it does come up as 2 CPUs but then, they do dont they?

The AMD dual core CPUs show up like this, but I was under the impression that a dual core Intel will actually show up as 4? - anyway, I dont have a clue on that one.

Also, even though everythign says its a 3.6 including the BIOS and DXDIAG, when I right click on my Computer - Properties, it shows up s a Pentium 4 3.60Ghz and its 2.7Ghz with 2GB RAM?

So, is it 2.7 or 3.6?

SuperPI is giving me similar speeds of my 8 year old's Sempron 3100 FFS!

Again, that could be because its still got the awful junk that the shop put in, and those scores must surely go up... Or down in this case.

Also, its got a 7800 PCIE card in it, but its actually slower according to Aquamark3 and 3DMark2003 than a Radeon9800Pro in a ClawHammer3700... Thats surely way out isnt it?

Anyway, as I said its been a while since I had an intel and so far, I am starting to see why, but surely this PC should not be so slow???

Its a Fujitsu siemens

 

[FatRakoon]

Hey up you lot...

Been into the BIOS now.

CPUs are 1... Says so in the BIOS.

Idling down to 2.7 is correct too... Thats also in the BIOS, forget what its called, but I have disabled it and it came up at 3.6, so its now 3.6 as it should be.

So, there it is, and yes, its a single core P4 660, as verified by CPUz

I had only just got it when I posted the above, and I didnt have time to install anything and this also meant CPUZ, but its on now.

And yes, its got a 2MB L2 Cache, so theoretically it should be a good un, but only 16k L1?

Erm, ran SuperPI at the 3.6 and its now down to 43Seconds so way off what the Sempron3100 gives me, and miles away from my Winchester and X2-48 so still got lots needed for me to think about using it as my main PC, but still...

That double thingy with the CPU's - HyperThreading as I thought, and I have disabled it in the BIOS, and DevManager is now only showing up the one, so I will have a few piddles about in a few minutes when it has finished re-installing.

It previously had Media Center on, but under CPUZ I noticed that the instructions its capabl;e of, is the usuals like SSE2,3 but also X86-64 too??? - Oh, so its 64Bit then? - Enough said, I am throwing on XP64 right now... A bit naughty I know, but I knocked up the ClawHammer 3700 just to piddle with XP64, so if this P4 runs well enough on it, I will let my daughter have the ClawHammer 3700 and I will take XP64 onto tyhis PC instead and give her one of my spare XP Home's instead... Shes only 8 so she wont care... As long as its got Little Mermaid on the desktop I can probably get away with Win95

Anyway, its definitely installing XP64 thats for sure.

Lets see how well the Card reader in it runs cos the one I got in the Claw does not work at all under any drivers I can find for XP64 ( Of which there are none )

What else?

Erm, nothign for now... Its now registering the components of the XP64 installation, so I will do that, get it playing as well as I can, and get back to you on the results of my next bout of benchies yeah?

Thanks for the advise all.

 

[FatRakoon]

HyperThreading = on

Oh yeah, I recon it would - Otherwise, they wouldnt be pimping it so much would they?

The thing is, like I said, I have not had an Intel for some time now, so I am doing a few tests on this and that.

Its like when I got the x2 4800 and compared it against my Winchester, I was expecting so much more than I actually got... To be fair, the winchester is clocked to the hilt ( Currently at 2.5 but it runs just fine at 3.0 ) and I expected the 4800 tobe double that of the Winchester, but to find that it was a long way off, was fun... Showed me how Dual CPUS really are... Not so much twice the performance, but rather the same performance, but twice as it were.

So, I suppose it could be a similar thign with this.

I notice that 3DMark2000 kept hanging or rather not bothering to start up properly, and in the DEvice Manager, the CPU was used up at 50% by 3DMark and this I suppose is the hyperthreading bit maybe? - Not enough tests to really check, and also I have had a lot of errors too, which annoyingly point to RAM, however, this could be anythign right now, they have just been minor and only after I have tried to run some apps that didnt go down too well anyway, so early days on that.

I am now out hunting for drivers... The Mobo is an Asus P5GD1 so can anyone shed some light on whether its a good un or not?

Its only got the one IDE line, but 4 SATA, so, again, if this is set to replace one of my AMD PCs, no doubt I will do some chopping about and get the raptors into this one, and it already has 2x200GB WD Drives in, so I will RAID those ( Windows' Software Raid though! )

Might have a look about clocking it now that I know the CPU can do it, but this board???? Hmmm... Hey, if it dont clock, I dont really care too much... I mean, my most used PC at this time, the DFI LanParty and thats only cos I need to use it to try to cure its many many many many issues, otherwise, my other PCs are just there doing nothing!

Sod it, Im getting tired and starting to waffle.

Yes, hyperthreading will be turned back on, like I said, I want to play first... See what it does etc..

 

[FatRakoon]

Not had time to do any real tests, but the silly tests I have done today, have all shown me that this P4 is nowhere near as quick as the AMDs.

Its got XP64 on, but of course, I will be killing that off very soon, and I will probably turn this P4 into a Server with Linux on.

Hyperthreading is definitely proving to be better than not having it, not realyl more so for simple straight forward apps, but definitely when I try to load it up thats for sure.

I cannot believe my gullibility, but the GFX are not 7800... I should have checked it out properly, but its an ATI X700, and an LE at that!

How the hell can

(a) - The previous guy think that?
(b) - I be so thick as to believe him?
(c) - Could I make such a massive mistake?

Ah well, the wonders of getting a good deal blinded me I recon.

Still,. for the price, its still a good PC.

Right, all I need to do now, is get it reliable with some new RAM, and maybe splash out on a GFX card for it... Shame its not SLI... I fancied getting a couple of cheap and nasty cards just to have a play.

Come back Voodoo2 - All is forgiven.

 

[FatRakoon]

Hmm... Best I have cadged from it so far is 42 Seconds, so its slower then normal is it?

I came back onto the forums just now to ask about something thats bugging me but I will ask it here...

I have converted a bunch of AVI Files from my DigiCam, and converted them to VCD compatible MPGs a few days ago on my X2 4400, and as the Pentium is supposed to be faster, I have moved all my videos to this P4, and then I can start a few jobs off, and go play with my AMD.

I have loaded them into TMPG DVD Author, and the ones I am doing right now, is only about 5 chunks and taking up just about half the disk... Roughly about 2GB... Its bloody awfully slow... Its been going over 10 minutes and according to TMPG its only 65% done and its still got 9 minutes to go???

I have NEVER had it that slow.

I have gone downstairs just now, and got the very same files, done up the menus etc to pretty much the same, but using the files over the LAN, and it did it in 3 minutes and I have come back up, and its still doing it...

Thats obviously not right is it?

So, WTF do I need to look at as to why its doing this?

The Motherboard is an ASUS P5GDI-FM and I think I have all the right drivers, however, there is one device thats in the DevManager that I cannot yet fathom out

The package is a Fujitsu Siemens Scaleo P, with an extra gig thrown in by the previous owner, and its about 4 months old.

While I remember, I paid £400 for it, and this included Windows Media Center and the remote thingy, TV Card, DVDRW and DVDROM, a Samsung Lazer Printer and a Fuji 19" LCD Screen, also a load of half decent software such as Office 2003, and a ton of games, Rome Total War, Civilization 4, and a few others, so I think it was a bit of a bargain really, even if it isnt runnign as it should be.

Its currently got Windows XP Pro and I am probably going to use the suplied Media Center disk to set it up, but I dont really like to fill it up with junk I dont use, but I might need to!!! - Actually, does the Media Center key work on stock XP Pro? - I suppose it should, its still XP Pro isnt it?

I really fancied using my XP64 Licence on it to be honest, but I found next to no drivers at all for the Motherboard... Saying that, it took me long enough to get a massive number of updates just to get the audio running on stock XP as it is never mind finding them for XP64 as well?


Ok, where was I?

Oh yeah... Its now down to 2 minutes.

The source fiels are on one HD the other files are on another, in this PC, both HDs are WD200GB so fairly quick, but why is it such a slow bugger then?

Any clues as to what I need to check out?

Task Manager is showing up only 26 Processes, there are no spyware or viral rubbish that is slowing it down.

RAM being DDR2 - Havent had a look to be honest... I will do that in a few minutes...

 

[FatRakoon]

No, its standard DDR not DDR 2

Its got 2xSamsung DDR400 and 2xSome Generic rubbish.

I have taken the generic stuff out, so its just got the Samsung pair now.

I have put them into Slots 1 and 3

 

[FatRakoon]

AH, and update for you.

Today, I went to the PC, ran SuperPI and got 36 Sec on the 1M Test.
Much better, but what did I do?

Nothing.

So, last night, before I quit, it was 42 and today it was 36??? - Go figure?

Anyway, I have brought a Maxtor 40GB for C: and a Temp Partition like the others, it is setup with C: being a nice 6GB ( As I make sure I keep C: nice and clean, and never install any apps but only system tools, I never need more than 4GB, but 6GB is sensible for me as extra that I will never need, but its there if I do )

Anyway, I chucked MCE on, from the original CD, went through the blab of installing and annoyingly, its put Windows onto J: or at least what should be my one and only partition on that HD is J: and my USB Card reader is taking up the others from C: onwards! - oh joy.

Sodding thing.

Anyway, I am here now, so I had a look at the device manager, it looks like most of the hardware is installed, the GFX, some USB Device ( Seemingly the WLAN, cos thats not here this time round ) and the TV Card are not, but everythign else is, including that device that eludes me, which can only be good news as this time, after the others are done, it will have ALL devices installed.

Anyway, Audio was in straight away, which was good news as it took me yonks with XP PRo and XP64, and although I will be chucking the Audgy into this PC when I am happy with its quirks, I still want to know that I can get my head round its bits for if/when I need to.

Anyway, first thing I did was ran SuperPI. Network was runnign without any hassles ( Entered my info during the install ) I uploaded it from my Server, ran it and I got 35 Seconds!!! - Wohoo!

Ok, so only 3 seconds slower than my best score on the AMD, so we are well on the way to success, and I am not overclocking at all.

I still have had a few annoyances... AquaMark3 wont run without crashing, and 3DMark2000 also crashes during one of its tests, but other than that, its ok, and these crashes are pointing to RAM still... I have some OCZ in the ECS NForce 3 & Sempron3100 so I will do a swapsies with those whenever I remember to.

Right, I think what I am going to do right now, is make up a custom installation DVD for this, using the Supplied DVD, but with my username / network blab, and let it go for a bit while I go downstairs and watch some not the nine oclock news with the missus, and hopefully we will be back onto C: and where I am now... Got to take that stupid USB card reader off first though, but annoyingly, the DVD and DVDRW came up before the HD did, so am I going to end up with Windows being on E: this time?

Why it did that, I dont know cos this is the 5th time I have reinstalled Windows on this PC this week... Various flavours of course to find one I like.

Another thing before I go... The website for this board, states that its got onboard RAID... There is no RAID options in the BIOS??? Unless I am blind of course, so where is it? anyone?

Ok, later dudes.

Thanks for everything... Especially actually reading this far into my post?

 

[FatRakoon]

Yeah, 35 is great.

Its enough to show me that I have taken it from 43 down to 35, so really, one way I can look at it, is that I have already tweaked it up! - Ok, so only to what it should do, but enough to make me feel a bit better over it.

Still cant figure out why its slow as it is at video encoding?

Win MCE?

Erm, cant really comment too much on it to be honest.

Its basically Windows XP Pro, but with some visual trimmings... Now, the PC came with a TV Card, and the MCE Remote control etc etc etc, but as I have killed off the original installation, I cannot comment too much on it myself. I do have a few friends who do have it all fully setup etc and they say its utter crud, btu then, they do have el-cheapo systems, or at least supposedly high spec PCs but from some nasty superstore that dont have a clue about PCs, so its not really setup right perhaps, but for my own part, I am only using MCE because thats what this PC already should be on, so why not?

One thing that is funny though, is that I have not entered a Serial number, nor have I activated the PC, and I have been able to do all the updates and not needed to activate it or even validate it either... Nice! - So, no doubt I will try that on another PC tonight and if it works, I will see what its done and re-do my own CDs accordingly... Sounds illegal, but I dont think it is as I do have licences for all my PCs.

Intel isnt all that bad?

LOL

No, I have to admit, that although I dont have any Intel PCs, the times when I did, I have never really been overly impresed with them.

I will say though, that 2 Intels in my past have taken me by shock, and that was some years ago, my good friend InSanCen, had a 200MMX, and I had a Cyrix 333.... The Cyrix being a 262Mhz PC, while being slower than it says it is, was still faster than his 200MMX wasnt it? - Wasnt it? - WASNT IT?

No?

Oh, ok then.

So, at the time, his 200MMX was roughly on par with my Cyrix 333 and we played such games at UT'99 and Quake 2 etc and to be honest, his 200MMX was running those games sweet as a nut, and mine struggled a fair bit sometimes, and that impressed me.

More recently I gave my old Ti4200 to another mate, as it was now gettign long in the tooth, and he has used it in a P4-2.6 and he plays all the latest games just fine! - Ok, so a massive drop in visual quality, but the gameplay is fine and it does not jerk at all... Mostly 800x600 unfortunately, but never the less, it plays just fine.

Funny that one cos when I showed him that his Mobo was too slow, I brought my XP1700 over to show him abotu overclocking and 3DMark gave my XP1700 @ stock with the Ti4200, 12K and when clocked, we hit 20K, and on his PC we never managed better than 11K and yet games play just fine!!! - just shows you benchmarks dont really mean bugger all.

But, both those are intels and both impressed me even to this day for being able to play what they shouldnt.

Where I lost it with Intel was when I had a Slot A Athlon 600 and I took it to a local shop and asked if they coule give me a board & CPU thats faster.

They offered me a Celeron 800 and I jumped at it.

I got it home, installed Windows and set abotu testing my 200mhz speed jump only to find that it was far slower... I asked for my money back and they laughed at me... I even offered to pay for my board back.

This brought home just how slow Celerons are.

Now, all this is going back a fair while, and I know the Pentiums are good, and the Celerons are poor but still... I have had a hatred for intel for some years.

I still do.

But then again, I am hoping that this PC now, will change my mind.

I am now happy with the performance I am getting from it, its now my 3rd fastest PC, and thats only because its not clocked and the others are, so at stock, its the quickest easily.

I am getting a new GFX Card for it... I was going to get a half way one, but I opted for a 7800GT as they are under £200 now, so I might as well. When it comes, it will be interesting to compare it with the 6800GT and I will finally have the fastest PC I have ever had!

I am also considering gettign an NForce Mobo for it too! - Thats if I can get a buyer for this one, but for now, I am just peachy with it.

Do I love it? - Not yet, but any hatred I had for it at first, has all now gone.

You are right though... Intel are not that bad after all.

At least now I can say that I am neither AMD or intel FanBoy eh?

Later.

 

[FatRakoon]

Quick update about MCE... I have just started it up, and gone through the blab.

I had to read the EULA thoroughly before going any further because at first glance, I swore I saw about being charged for its use, or for using it to view TV with, and on that, I am still 50-50 to be honest, but in another way, I am also thinking its for viewing pay-for Digital channels perhaps?

Either way, I am a bit iffy on using it at all.

Anyway, one thing I cannot but help feel, is that if you have ever used a program called SHOW-SHIFTER, then you will perhaps feel, like me, that you now know why it has gone bust!!!

I feel that M$ in their quest for global domination have simply either paid them off, or bought them out!

Its the same thing but with a different look & feel, but essentially the same.

Not that I used SS all that much anyway, but thats what I felt it was like.

 

[FatRakoon]

I dont really laugh at celerons...

I do however feel sorry for people who buy them thinking that their PC is a good one and they got a good deal... Its those I feel sorry for!

Hey, just today I was given a Celeron 700 to fix. the PSU was dead, and its a non-standard and condensation had pretty much killed the Mobo, so I said as a quick and cheap fix, that I have a P3-600 here, but they said that they use the Celeron to play games on!

Now, I did explain that the Celeron 700 of theirs was using onboard graphics and that I will happily let them nab an MX420 thats spare, and I tried to explain that the 600 was actually a much better system, but they insisted... Its those I feel sorry for!

MCE being slower.

Yes, thats true... It needs a quick system just to cope with it.

Saying that though, I am still getting the 35 Second SuperPI, so its only really the desktop that I suffer on... Thats sluggish as hell, and it feel like I am running on 128MB RAM it can get that bad, but other than that, its ok.

I have used a Maxtor 40GB ATA133/2 as C: using a Serillel adaptor, with a 120GB Seagate as D: and F: ( 80GB for D: and 36 or so for F: ) and I am currently trying out a pair of 200GB WD Sata Drives with Software Raid tohave a play about for a laugh, but again, as the OS isnt going to be here for long, its only to play about with...

If I do opt to have it as my main system ( Still no closer to deciding because the AMD is so perfect and feels far superior still ) then I will be doing a Mobo swap only, and I will use the AMDs HDs and just F&R on C:

With the installation C Dbeing what it is, and not needing a serial or activation and its fully running, I am wondering abotu using a custom version of that and justleaving out the MCE bits, after all MCE is only XP Pro but with junk, so why not leave the junk out?

Anyway, we are losing an hour tonight, so I will turn in soon... Got a couple of episodes of Andromeda to catch up on first.

 

[FatRakoon]

Dear Lord, FatRakoon, I know you keep paragraphs to make easy reading but could you shorten some of those posts too . My eyes are hurting trying to keep up! .

NO

Is MCE annoying at all? Is it based on home or Pro, do you know?

Its based on PRO

To be honest mate. Its a pile of plonk.

Its basically Pro, but added junk for making things easier to use a PC as a Multimedia center rather than a PC... I think that if you want a PC for high end use then you should not bother with MCE but if you want just a Media center, then thats fine!

Its sort of a Hifi - DVD Player & Recorder - TV etc all rolled into one, but with a nicer interface.

Other than that, its a bit naff to be honest.

One thing is for sure... I wont have had it if it wasnt already supplied with this PC so its going to be taken off... I will sell it off, with the remote control junk, and get another copy of XP Pro instead!!!

I might try Win2000 on it actually as I have a few spare licences for that, but does it show up as Multiple CPUs like XP Pro does??? Cos XP Home does'nt.

 

[FatRakoon]

OH?

Does it?

Ok then... I will have a try cos I got Spare Licences for Home too!

Never tried it I have to admit, but I have read on this forums that Home does not support multiple CPUs... Or perhaps I am confusing with Servers and 8 CPUs etc... Only one way to find out eh?

 

[FatRakoon]

Yes, I already knew that

So, thats all it is then?

Straight forward when you know isnt it?

Anyway, I am havign a look later on to see if I can stick with MCE, but lose all the Media Center crud, so I can keep my Licence and stay legal and yet have XP Pro on this system instead of MCE... If you see what I mean?

This will enable me to just downgrade to MCE if / when I want to and not need to mess about with buying / selling MCE for XP Pro.

Does that sound right? Its what I plan on anyway...

Plus, this CD is great as it does not need activating or a Serial, and thats nothing special really, but its also giving me full updates etc without me needing to crack it.

 

[FatRakoon]

Yeah, there is a folder called CMPNENTS and its mostly whats in that!

I have had a bit of a scout round, and if you have MCE on CD rather than DVD, then you get the option of inserting CD 2 or not!

Now, if you opt to avoid CD 2 then you get a much lighter version of MCE... Or, XP PRo with the MCE skin by the looks of things... Too early to tell as I have not tried it myself...

Will update on this tonight as I am part-way through seeing what I do / dont need for the CD already.

 

[FatRakoon]

Hmm...

Ok, few thigns have been going on earlier on.

Firstly, in the Add/Remove section, I found Windows Media Center, a few bits of it actually, so I got rid of them and there we go! - Media Center was gone!

So, even though MicroShaft recon its a full setup, Media Center is still only an add-on to XP Pro, just like WinME is an addon to 98 I suppose?

Anyway, thats going to cure that problem... WinMCE can get lost for good now.

Ok, on to the customized CD Trial 1

First off, based on the supplied MCE CD I got with this P4, I created an ISO of the disk to burn, and simply killed off the folder called "MEDIACTR" in the "CMPNENTS" Folder, and tried that.
Perfect. It asked for the second CD and I told it to get lost, and it carried on and installed just fine without the garbage.

It still didnt ask for any serial number, but on checking that, I found it... Its NOT the one thats on the sticker thats for sure, but also weirdly enough, its not the one in the MSBATCH either? - Cool, so its being shoved there some other way? - Activation and that genuinne info is also by-passed too!!

Right, Test No2

Install to another PC.

I threw another PC together to try it out and guess what?

That installed just fine, didnt need activating, and is just peachy at updating through the MS Updates online too!!!
Now, at first, I was assuming that it was simply copying over a dummy WPA file, but it seems like thats not whats happening otherwise, why would it be ok going over like this?

So, me thinks that I have got myself a LEGAL CD thats more corrupt than a pirates pride & Joy, and in theory, this CD has more power to corrupt than XP Corp.

Cool.

Obviously, I have several PCs and they all have legal licences, but hells bells, I got to dig deeper into this one? - If I can sort out my own Pro and Home CDs like this, I wont need to keep phoning up MS every time I do a freshie.

Later.

 

[FatRakoon]

Exactly!