Interesting BT Issue

MarkA · 7 Feb 2019 at 13:52

For all the years I've worked in IT, I'm a little baffled on how this issue is occurring.

Normally - my pings to bbc.co.uk or google dns (8.8.8.8) are around 10-15ms
Normally - my throughput is between 60-76mbps on BT Fibre2 Unlimited (80/20)

Issue:
Pings are high (10 - 150ms) - when using a small amount of bandwidth. (1mbps)
Pings are high (20 - 150ms) - when using a medium amount of bandwidth (3mbps)
Pings are high (70 - 250ms) - when using a large amount of bandwidth (7mbps)
Pings are low (10-15ms) - when doing absolutely nothing on the network.

I have an Ubiquiti Edgemax Lite3 router, attached to a fibre modem and this has been solid for about 2 years now. It also has traffic analysis, so I can see on the network - which devices are pulling what throughput. The above testing is done, when there is literally nothing else happening on the network, when I say nothing - I mean there's about 100KB-300KB/s being Tx/Rx from my other connected devices).

Nothing has changed my end, for a long time, although with the above issue, I'm trying to figure out where the issue lays.
I'm going to swap my equipment out, back to the BT Homehub when I get home tonight to test.
I'm wondering if anyone has seen this type of issue before?
- If you have - what was the fix?
- If you haven't - what else can I check?

Is it worth a BT Support phonecall?

Low ping is essential to gaming for me.
I can't do any sort of gaming (warping), when the wife is watching Netflix etc...

Webster · 7 Feb 2019 at 14:01

It's worth a call, something isn't right.

I had something very similar with my Sky fibre and BT have just been out (yesterday) and had to lift and shift the line to resolve.

Fingers crossed you get someone who knows what they are looking at or at the very least can see an issue on the line / at the exchange.

Good Luck!

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 15:43

Here is mine,

Below are pings while i am doing absolutely nothing on the network.

C:\Users\Dan>tracert www.google.co.uk

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.206.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 14 ms 12 ms 16 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 13 ms 13 ms 16 ms ae-7.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.12]
4 17 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae-8.agg1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.14]
5 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms 72.14.217.190
6 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms 74.125.242.65
7 14 ms 15 ms 17 ms 216.239.63.127
8 16 ms 20 ms 13 ms lhr35s10-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.206.35]

Trace complete.

Below are the pings i get, tested 2 times whilst downloading at full download speed which in my case is 60mbps which is my full download speed.

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.206.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 14 ms 17 ms 14 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 20 ms 21 ms 22 ms ae-7.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.12]
4 23 ms 18 ms 19 ms ae-8.agg1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.14]
5 37 ms 34 ms 33 ms 72.14.217.190
6 25 ms 25 ms 21 ms 74.125.242.65
7 48 ms 49 ms 47 ms 216.239.63.127
8 18 ms 18 ms 22 ms lhr35s10-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.206.35]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Dan>tracert www.google.co.uk

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.206.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 3 ms 1 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 30 ms 21 ms 16 ms ae-7.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.12]
4 25 ms 27 ms 28 ms ae-8.agg1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.14]
5 24 ms 21 ms 23 ms 72.14.217.190
6 24 ms 24 ms 23 ms 74.125.242.65
7 119 ms 114 ms 92 ms 216.239.63.127
8 24 ms 18 ms 21 ms lhr35s10-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.206.35]

Trace complete.

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 15:56

Going to put a youtube video on here as video footage proof, so will edit this post again.

anyways from that video i post the ping times i get below, as shown in the video when i post it.

C:\Users\Dan>tracert www.google.co.uk

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.206.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 96 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae-7.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.12]
4 28 ms 16 ms 22 ms ae-8.agg1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.14]
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 72.14.217.190
6 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 74.125.242.65
7 14 ms 16 ms 14 ms 216.239.63.127
8 14 ms 16 ms 20 ms lhr35s10-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.206.35]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Dan>tracert www.google.co.uk

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.206.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 73 ms 73 ms 73 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 35 ms 45 ms 53 ms ae-7.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.12]
4 48 ms 39 ms 34 ms ae-8.agg1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.14]
5 60 ms 54 ms 44 ms 72.14.217.190
6 61 ms 48 ms 47 ms 74.125.242.65
7 94 ms 50 ms 169 ms 216.239.63.127
8 65 ms 67 ms 67 ms lhr35s10-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.206.35]

Trace complete.

edit video below,

MarkA · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:01

Here's mine, from idle connection to tracing during full download speed:

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.204.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.254
2 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 172.16.16.61
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 31.55.187.180
5 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms core1-hu0-6-0-8.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.76]
6 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 109.159.252.82
7 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 109.159.253.73
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms 108.170.233.232
10 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 74.125.242.83
11 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 209.85.250.185
12 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms 216.239.58.2
13 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms 108.170.246.161
14 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 108.170.238.123
15 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]

Trace complete.

While downloading at 7.8MB/s

Tracing route to lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.254
2 30 ms 20 ms 15 ms 172.16.16.61
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 40 ms 33 ms 30 ms 31.55.187.180
5 49 ms 43 ms 55 ms core1-hu0-6-0-8.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.76]
6 47 ms 51 ms 50 ms 109.159.252.82
7 70 ms 67 ms 54 ms 109.159.253.73
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 64 ms 64 ms 70 ms 108.170.233.232
10 69 ms 68 ms 53 ms 74.125.242.83
11 53 ms 47 ms 53 ms 209.85.250.185
12 55 ms 51 ms 48 ms 216.239.58.2
13 64 ms 62 ms 56 ms 108.170.246.129
14 58 ms 50 ms 46 ms 108.170.238.123
15 72 ms 62 ms 60 ms lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]

Trace complete.

Webster · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:04

Can you see much info on your router?

How low is your SNR?

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:06

Webzta said:
Can you see much info on your router?

How low is your SNR?

Hopefully you ment me i get the feeling your asking the op, anyways mine is below.

Webster · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:09

lltfdaniel said:
Hopefully you ment me i get the feeling your asking the op, anyways mine is below.

Haha yeah, nice amount of info in your router though!

You should see if your cab supports a target SNR of 3 - you'd be hitting nearer the 80/20 then, not that your speeds are bad!

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:11

Webzta said:
Haha yeah, nice amount of info in your router though!

You should see if your cab supports a target SNR of 3 - you'd be hitting nearer the 80/20 then, not that your speeds are bad!

Yea well at the moment they (openreach) are testing my line for stability anyways in the future i will ring zen to see if i can get a closer speed to 80/20, they will know what i am on about.

Dan.

MarkA · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:13

I'll have to have a look at mine when I get home - I've not configured the port to allow access via the LAN (echolife hg612).

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 16:32

MarkA said:
I'll have to have a look at mine when I get home - I've not configured the port to allow access via the LAN (echolife hg612).

Anyways i hope you get your pings sorted out, as i have no intention to hijack your thread but just a comparison.

Dan.

MarkA · 7 Feb 2019 at 18:57

It's better... when connecting using the homehub, compared to my own equipment. I have netflix running in the living room and barely got any ping jumps, compared to yesterday. Albeit, not totally static as I would hope, but a little better. With Netflix off, I get a flat 10ms-15ms to bbc.co.uk, without any spiking.

My router stats from the homehub says my SNR is

DSL Link Up: Down Rate=72470Kbps, Up Rate=20000Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.4dB, Up=6.7dB

It's not great though, so I'll work from home tomorrow and give them a ring in the morning to see if there's anything they can see. This is the main reason I wanted to swap back to the homehub before I test, since they'll need me on it before they do any in-depth testing if i remember correctly.

.. and no worries lltfdaniel, I didn't see you as hijacking!

Caged · 7 Feb 2019 at 20:09

Has a link dropped to half duplex?

mrkev · 7 Feb 2019 at 20:29

What is this fibre modem you are referring to? I can see 172.16.16.61 in your traceroutes which doesn't look right.

Caged · 7 Feb 2019 at 20:45

This is my BT Broadband traceroute for comparison:

Code:

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.214.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     6 ms     7 ms     6 ms  31.55.186.212
  5     7 ms     8 ms     7 ms  core3-hu0-17-0-8.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.52]
  6     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  194.72.16.48
  7     7 ms     9 ms     8 ms  peer5-te0-0-0-32.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.77]
  8     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  74.125.242.97
  9     8 ms     9 ms    10 ms  72.14.237.149
 10     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  lhr26s05-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.214.3]

I agree the private address on the second hop looks weird. Do you have the EdgeRouter and an L3 switch or something?

lltfdaniel · 7 Feb 2019 at 22:34

Caged said:

This is my BT Broadband traceroute for comparison:

Code:

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.214.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     6 ms     7 ms     6 ms  31.55.186.212
  5     7 ms     8 ms     7 ms  core3-hu0-17-0-8.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.52]
  6     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  194.72.16.48
  7     7 ms     9 ms     8 ms  peer5-te0-0-0-32.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.77]
  8     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  74.125.242.97
  9     8 ms     9 ms    10 ms  72.14.237.149
 10     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  lhr26s05-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.214.3]

I agree the private address on the second hop looks weird. Do you have the EdgeRouter and an L3 switch or something?

That is a decent ping, I hope mine will be like that.

Dan.

MarkA · 8 Feb 2019 at 10:04

mrkev said:
What is this fibre modem you are referring to? I can see 172.16.16.61 in your traceroutes which doesn't look right.

That's a hop with BT, nothing to do with my equipment as far as I know.
I swapped out my modem/router to the bthomehub and the same hop is there.

GhostlyPea · 8 Feb 2019 at 11:48

I seem to recall BT allocated 172.16.0.0/12 ranges out when doing tests on circuits. When did the problem start or have you logged tickets with them in the past for other phone or DSL issues, or moved in recently? Possibly worth a call to their support department (good luck...) as that doesn't look right to me

Edit: Can you do an ifconfig on your router or similar to see what WAN IP it's getting, could also be some weird double-NAT issue, although unlikley if you swapped the router out

- GP

MarkA · 8 Feb 2019 at 13:45

Connecting to the bthomehub, I can see the default IP of the WAN connection is 172.16.16.61, which is the next hop:

TCP / IP Settings
Broadband network IP address: 86.135.44.163
Default gateway: 172.16.16.61
Primary DNS: 81.139.57.100
Secondary DNS: 81.139.56.100

I had an hour long conversation with a helpful english-speaking BT Plus diagnostics guy. He says he checked everything, did some speed tests although, nothing related to latency. Basically at the end of it, said that everything I was experiencing was within the thresholds of what they expect people to get.
Very little drop-outs reported (reconnects from modem to BT) and nothing to note.
I advised him that when I start a download or even watch netflix, my pings go high, almost immediately.

https://youtu.be/I2tFBmGF0Zg

This is it right now - with only around 40% bandwidth utilisation.

GhostlyPea · 8 Feb 2019 at 14:06

Can you see the DSL stats in there anywhere? Noise, SNR etc. Is the modem internal to the router? With that info it simply looks like the gateway provided is the vty interface on their LNS. I haven't had direct BT Internet in years but my current PlusNET doesn't do that and it didn't back when I was on Be*

Edit: The router thinks it has about 72Mb down and 20Mb up which is fine. This could be a local issue, what happens if you change the Network cable into the router or do a speed test on your phone from WIFI? What does your PC NIC say - does it report at 1G/Full or whatever the BT port is. Are you directly connected to it and what speed does that say on the router?

Edit 2: This smells of a local issue rather than the Internet connection. Your latency increases before it even leave your router judging by the tracerts posted earlier

- GP