Interesting read on Sony / PS3

Soldato
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"Like many of you, it’s hard for me to remember a time when the word "Playstation" was not synonymous with gaming. Sony has held the all mighty hardware throne for an astounding eleven years at the time of writing this. The same can be said for Nintendo’s 9 year reign with the NES and SNES from 1985 - 1994, and even more so with Atari’s 10 year reign ending with the collapse of the entire industry in 1981-1984. With that in mind, one must ask, is Sony placing to much faith in the Playstation moniker at this point or do they truly understand the business on such a level that the cat and mouse game they are playing with the PS3 and any information surrounding will ultimately pay off in the bolstering amount needed to save the ailing hardware giant.

In a recent interview through a European media outlet, Mr. Fornay Vice president of SCEE (Sony computer entertainment of Europe) made some rather astounding remarks regarding the PS3 price-point and the views being placed upon it. He hastily hinted that a Blu-ray player in the neighborhood of $599.99 would be an absolute steal, but as a stand alone gaming machine would be quite overpriced, as proven in the past. Sony was quick to issue a rebuttal on his behalf stating these were his personal views and not official commenting on the price of the PS3. Damage control at its finest. But keep in mind the massive cover up after Sony’s own CEO Howard Stringer hinted at the PS3's launch delay to Vanity Fair. Sony PR was quick to label it as "pure speculation" coming from the company’s own CEO, which was later to be proven completely accurate when the delay was made official mid-march of 2006. Sony isn’t one for honesty as a company entity however their head honcho's loose lips seem to deliver the only truth passing Sony’s door these days.

If the PS3 is delivered at $599.99 what does this mean for Sony? Historically gaming machines would have never sold for anything north of $299.99 (that was until the Xbox360 moved the line to 399.99 in winter of 2005). Just look at the complete failure of the 1990's powerhouse, the 3DO, at the relatively respectable price of $399.99 (roughly $449.99 inflation adjusted). With the PS3 now touting the largest price tag for any console in the history of gaming and higher then most mid-low end PC's at this point, does this spell disaster for the ailing hardware giant? Sony hasn’t posted net gains in the past three years until 2005 when they posted a depressing $580 million dollar profit after posting loss's in the billions for the last three fiscal years.

The true death blow at this point would really point to the HDCP compliance required for Blu-ray movie playback (as well as HD-DVD), making the PS3 no more then a video game system with a capacity of 50 gig games for anyone who purchased a HDTV in the past 6 years. So were does the PS3's $600.00 price tag come into play for us non-HDCP HDTV owners? The answer is nowhere.

PS3 production pricing at this point has been laid out to be anywhere from $850 - $956 per unit, meaning there will be a loss on each machine of approx $250 - $350 per console sold. If one million consoles sell in the first day of availability Sony will have wiped their entire fiscal gain for all of 2005 in under 24 hours.

In retrospect, Microsoft lost $150 per Xbox (Version 1) console, ending in a 4 billion dollar loss in the lifespan of Xbox (Version 1). With pockets deeper then the Atlantic Ocean, even Microsoft had to re-consider their standings in the console market, thus leading to an abruptly ended Xbox life span. So how will Sony bounce back for a variable $2 billion dollar hole in 2006? Answer is they won't at the price point they have “announced”.

Sony’s official statement in the face of the $599.99 price tag was "The console will not cost $750 dollars", meaning in short, I believe the damage control was laid down not in the face of the price tag being over priced, but more like being under priced. Expect the PS3 to weigh in above the $650 mark for Sony to have a substantial chance at a 2006 fiscal year that doesn’t sink the proverbial ship.

But what does all this mean for gamers as a whole? Basically with an astounding high price, and seemingly useless features for those of us with standard definition televisions or high definition televisions purchased in the past 6 years, we will be purchasing a half-complete machine for a fully complete hi-def included player price. This is Sony’s main hurdle, finding a way around the HDCP protocol. A blu-ray player with a price tag of $100.00 is still worthless to over 350 million Americans which is, I might add, Sony’s main demographic for hardware sales (North America).

Ailing stock prices, poor movie sales and a failing UMD (Sony PSP media) market, might add up to a low-cost buyout in Sony’s future. I personally see this happening regardless of the Blu-ray market by 2014. I for one can just see the looks on Sony’s main competitors faces at this time, all the gleaming in the world coming from One Microsoft way ( the road both Nintendo HQ and MS HQ reside on) as this could turn out to be the largest upset in consumer electronics history.

All this added up, you have to ask yourself. Will the next Playstation you purchase post-PS3 run a Microsoft operating system and have backwards compatibility for PS1 PS2 PS3 Xbox and Xbox360? Putting your rabid love for Sony aside, this doesn’t seem as far fetched as it once did, when the Sony name wasn’t covered in enough red tape to fill the Grand Canyon.

Blu-ray, Cell and a self-destructive obsession with one upping Microsoft, might have possibly put this king to rest... for good."

http://www.bonafidereviews.com/article.php?id=148&page=

I didnt realise how much of a drop in profits sony has made, thats quite substancial! (sp)

Interesting point about if they sell 1million consoles they have actually lost all profit pretty much. I know they will regain it in software sales before anyone says it, but still would it be like starting from 0 again?

Also some info on the OS type thing....

Over the past couple of months we have been hearing reports from a couple of our sources who wish to remain anonymous. The following information has been validated by multiple sources that are involved in early PS3 development. While we strongly believe the following information to be correct, Sony is still in a position where they could change some of the specifics. These are not 100% locked in stone, but are close to being so.

That being said, we will first start with some background information concerning Sony's PlayStation3 competition that is known as the Xbox360.

One of the first things that one notices when they utilize the Xbox360 is that it has an operating system running constantly in the background, even while playing games. This is a revolutionary feature as far as dedicated Game Console hardware is concerned.

The operating system running in the background enables,

- Custom Music in all games
- Simplifying development of Online games
- Seamless updating of games when the Xbox360 is connected to the Internet
- Voice Chat across all games, even outside of the games own UI
- Notifications and messaging to be sent between users regardless of the games they are playing

As one would deduct, this does not come without its own costs in terms of power, including,

- 32mb of the 512mb of available GDDR3 RAM
- 3% CPU time on Core1 and Core2 (nothing is reserved on Core0)

Everything that one wants to do involving software on a Game Console, specifically while the user is playing games, comes at a cost. In the case of the Xbox360, this cost is approximately 2% of total CPU time and 6.25% of the Xbox360's total available RAM. Balancing these out, one could argue that MS has removed a total of 4% of the Xbox360's total available system power in order to provide these features and more which were not mentioned. They also left room, CPU and RAM wise, for future features. In other words, they are not entirely using all of the CPU Time and RAM that they have reserved to date.

This brings us to the information we have concerning the PS3. As some gamers have heard, Sony revealed at GDC this year that they will be constantly reserving 1 of the 7 available SPEs on the Cell Processor for their OS. This, we have discovered, is just the tip of the iceberg.

As was witnessed in their demonstrations at GDC, Sony is planning to have an Operating System running constantly in the background, just like one witnesses when using the Xbox360 OS (aka Dashboard). They plan to have a "Blade" like pane that can appear out of the right hand side of the screen for viewing and participating in activities that the OS enables.

This include but are not limited to,

- Multi-User Voice Chat across all games, even outside of the games own UI
- Multi-User Video Chat across all games, even outside of the games own UI
- Notifications and messaging to be sent between users regardless of the games they are playing

Like the Xbox360, this all comes at a cost,

- 32mb of the 256mb of available GDDR3 memory off the RSX chip
- 64mb of the 256mb of available XDR memory off the Cell CPU
- 1 SPE of 7 constantly reserved
- 1 SPE of 7 able to be "taken" by the OS at a moments notice (games have to give it up if requested)

In the case of the PS3 this equates to 25% of the available Cores on the CPU and 18.75% of the available RAM in the system. Balancing these out, one could argue that Sony has removed a total of 23% of the available system power in the PS3 for these features as well as others that are not mentioned here or will be added in future updates to the PS3 Operation System.

The 1 SPE that can be taken away, by the system, from the games at a moments notice could be for the purposes of rendering the Blade and decoding and presenting the multiple video sources and other content onto the Blade when it appears to the user. This will have minimal to no impact on the ability of single player games to utilize the SPE, though it will likely add complications during development of games for the system. The main impact would be in Online Multiplayer games that do not have a pause option available and thus will have increased difficulty in relinquishing the SPE.

http://www.ps3portal.com/ps3/article/352/1

I know its all speculation but raises quite good points, i remember the PS3 has a weakness in a pipeline or something? Altho it has more ram/faster it cant get the information through fast enuff, coupled with 25% of power to run the linux type thing its quite bad.

PS3 wont be around at E3 either (playable wise) so i wonder what information will be released then. When is E3 as well? Quite soon isnt it, gonna be a very interesting weekend. I cant wait to see what nintendo have coming :D :cool:
 
Interesting read, great post mate!

I for one, believe that the PS3 probably will win the 'console wars' but not by as much. If the PS£ is that much, I doubt I'll be getting one anytime soon, plus when it is released, Microsoft will probably have an amazing line-up ready to tackle it to keep me and other 360 owners happy, and maybe persuade people to go to the xbox because no doubt a price drop will be on the cards as well.
 
Those are definitely interesting reads, in particular the one regarding core usage.

Whilst just speculation at the moment, things don't become speculated without any form of truth, what that is we'll have to wait and see.

I'm sure Sony will sort it out though.
 
I used to have full faith that Sony would pull this out of the bag. After all when the PS2 was in Dev there was plenty of bad press about the Emotion Engine, the fact that it looked like "a 70's vinyl player throwback" etc.. but look at it now.

But now I look around at all the bad press regarding the PS3, the delays, the price, and I begin to think "You know what? Maybe Sony have ballsed it up this time. The Jig is up" :(

But when you consider that they have had 10 years experience building (arguably) the best consoles of the various generations (I personally class XBox as Gen 2.5) and have become the biggest selling console manufacturer ever*. I seriously doubt they would allow for a console to be developed for so long that it would cost so much to produce that it would make a loss so big it would send the company under.

Sony are looking to the future (maybe a little too far) with the PS3 but I have every confidence that they will realised that 350m Americans dont have HDCP compliant TV's and will have accounted for that.

/Fanboy :)

* This is pure assumption on my part (off to google now)
 
I've no idea why the article talks about 350 million Americans, when at present the United States has a population of less than 300 million :p

Not that it has much of a bearing on things.
 
Fusion said:
I've no idea why the article talks about 350 million Americans, when at present the United States has a population of less than 300 million :p

Not that it has much of a bearing on things.

HA! He's right (Not to say that i didn't believe you)

United States — Population: 295,734,134
 
more than likely :P We have 4 in our house hold and HD has been around a very long time in US, i mean even in an episode of sopranos (1st series) they give a guy a HD tv to bribe him! and thats going back to like 1999.
 
TheMagicPirate said:
But when you consider that they have had 10 years experience building (arguably) the best consoles of the various generations (I personally class XBox as Gen 2.5) and have become the biggest selling console manufacturer ever*. I seriously doubt they would allow for a console to be developed for so long that it would cost so much to produce that it would make a loss so big it would send the company under.

At one stage there was a NES in 1/3 US homes.... i'm pretty sure Nintendo have sold more than Sony (NES + SNES + Gameboy + N64 + Gamecube > PS1 + PS2 + PSP).

TheMagicPirate said:
HA! He's right (Not to say that i didn't believe you)

United States — Population: 295,734,134

I think he's talking about North America, not "The USA" so that includes Canada etc. Well, was my assumption anyway. :)
 
R5Rich said:
more than likely :P We have 4 in our house hold and HD has been around a very long time in US, i mean even in an episode of sopranos (1st series) they give a guy a HD tv to bribe him! and thats going back to like 1999.

Not as long as the Japs :D Late 1980s for them, but it didn't take off.

The article doesn't make too much sense and operates from too high a level. The Cell has two SPEs (if you include the 'reserved' one). They're saying 1 of 7 SPEs is reserved all the time, and 1 of 7 SPEs can be taken at any time, by saying 1 of 7, they're talking about the exact same SPE. Additionally there are only TWO SPEs, and 5(?) PPEs. If, for arguments sake, the OS could take the second SPE entirely for itself the running game would effectively stop dead in its tracks because the remaining SPE is the only general purpose microprocessor left.

They're making a lot of assumptions, ones that shouldn't be made without knowing how it really works. If the PS3's OS really is this brutal to a game, then I would expect far more bugs (locks, losing saves, etc.) as a result of the OS than you get on the X360. However, I doubt this will be the case since it would take a monstrous amount of bad planning to do this.

The first article is equally as 'sensationalist' imo. It mentions good old HDCP, like many Vista comments. 'You have to buy a new CPU, Motherboard, Graphics Card, Monitor, etc. etc.' - completely wrong. Anyway, it seems the first movies will not require HDCP to display in full resolution (whether thats 720p or 1080i). HDCP is only required for BluRay movies, the space advantages of BluRay live on regardless which will allow for some truely massive & varied RPGs. Oblivion may be massive, but you can see the squeeze in the variety of the environments.

Americans are also not the main demographic, that smells of American arrogance. There are three main territories, and NA is just one of them. Ultimately if the Japanese territory is very successful then the PS3 itself will be successful from a business sense. Just successful in Japan and they'll have a problem, but I doubt that will be an issue, at least initially. The closest competition is the Xbox 360, and until good Japanese oriented games arrive for it, its a slam-dunk for the PS3. PS3 success in Japan would also mean Japanese developers focus on it as a primary development platform.

Anyway, my point is the PS3 may well be Sony's undoing. It may not, we just don't know. I won't buy a PS3 until (if ever) some exceptional games arrive for it and aren't available on the Xbox 360.
 
R5Rich said:
more than likely :P We have 4 in our house hold and HD has been around a very long time in US, i mean even in an episode of sopranos (1st series) they give a guy a HD tv to bribe him! and thats going back to like 1999.
In season 1 it was a DVD player that was given as a bribe I believe.
 
*me goes back over episodes* Ill shall tell u in a min :P

Either way then it was 2000? cos it was a year on i believe...

*edit* S1 EP9 25mins in :P
 
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R5Rich said:
*me goes back over episodes* Ill shall tell u in a min :P

Either way then it was 2000? cos it was a year on i believe...

*edit* S1 EP9 25mins in :P



Ahh, shows when I last watched through season one :D
 
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