Internal job promotion, refuse 1st offer?

Tealc

Tealc

Tealc

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Llanelli
I've been with my current company for just over a year and a half and recently interviewed for an internal days quality engineer role. They've offered me the role today at roughly a 10k per annum increase on my existing basic, plus bonus, medical and dental. There is potential of going on shift at some point, which I'm not all that excited about. The new role is salaried with no paid overtime, or TOIL.

Is it customary, in a corporate environment, to refuse the first offer and put forward why you think the offer should be increased. How would one go about doing this? I do have some leverage in that I am a material release signatory and I built the software system they use to carry this out, plus some other stuff which no one else can do yet.

My existing role is paid overtime with TOIL and as such I have earned £15k above my basic but to do this I've had to put in 12hrs average overtime per week, which includes almost every Sunday. Who knows how long the overtime will continue for.

Thanks
 
I don't know why it would be "customary" to refuse and ask for more? If the offer is fair (and it sounds like it's of great benefit to you) then take it?

That said, if the overtime situation is likely to change with the new role then this may impact things.
 
No harm in asking for more, especially if you're technically taking a cut due to losing overtime.

Also no overtime if you're earning a salary and bonus is one thing as you're not paid by the hour but no time off in lieu??? That is nonsense, if you're working on a weekend or bank holiday you should get a day off in lieu.
 
howiepoohs said:
I think that if you refuse the first offer, they will probably offer it to someone else. Unless you can negotiate.
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This ^

Unfortunately we are not in a an employee market today, so unless you have a very specific skill set that they demand of then you are in no position to bargain. Either accept or look elsewhere.. and that's how they will see it.

That said, you could negotiate other issues, like benefits in kind, working hours, pensions etc.
 
Nah pay is much easier to negotiate, benefits such as pensions are generally standard for all employees (i.e matching 5% etc...).

The actual (total)hours you work are generally not for negotiation either unless you want to be part time(if you're salaried with no overtime then the implication is that hours aren't fixed anyway) however there often is flexibility on things like start time, working from home etc...

Fundamentally though I would be clear in highlighting that this represents a pay cut for you and if they're not able to offer more right away then at least have some plan in place to get you back up to your previous level of compensation fairly soon... get the ball rolling for a decent adjustment next pay review etc...
 
dowie said:
No harm in asking for more, especially if you're technically taking a cut due to losing overtime.

Also no overtime if you're earning a salary and bonus is one thing as you're not paid by the hour but no time off in lieu??? That is nonsense, if you're working on a weekend or bank holiday you should get a day off in lieu.
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Bank holidays do attract a day back in TOIL but no mention of weekends giving back TOIL, so I'm looking to negotiate something around that as I'd expect my services will be desirable on the occasional weekend. I don't mind covering the occasional Saturday or Sunday but I'm not going to be doing that if I then have to work my entire normal working week on top with no financial or holiday benefit.

Sadly this TOIL thing seems to be a way this company is going, although I do know of one guy who recently took on a salaried position and does get TOIL for Sundays so it may be possible to bend them on that.

I already get a bonus with my existing role, but no medical or dental. Effective pay drop would be in the order of 4k maybe based on the last year income.
 
Gather what information you can about the salary range the role is offering, see where they have benchmarked you in that range and then decide if its worth negotiating. I'm not sure I would "reject" the offer so to speak, but I'd say that I would like to negotiate around salary before I made a decision either way.

With regards to TOIL, as a salaried employee it is pretty standard that you don't get overtime for working extra hours on top of your shift etc. However if you're forced to do an extra day then that is another matter and I'd expect TOIL.
 
My recent move internally was a reduction in take-home but an increase in basic salary without OOH.

There's only so far you can go and still expect to see OOH payments unfortunately. What I ensured was that the payrise I did receive didn't prejudice either the annual pay planning nor the possibility of a further raise once I've been formally assessed in my new role :)

Don't forget pensions and bonuses and so on are calculated from your base salary, so your £ there goes further than your OOH £ and I'm working less hours now too let's not forget. There is a balance to be found though :)
 
My line manager told the technical director that it wasn't enough money even before he knew how much it was. It turns out that the salary offered is more than two of the shift quality engineers (probably the two new guys) get so isn't excessive, but importantly is less than the other two. He reckons there's wiggle room, especially when it comes to an uplift to cover material release as they'll struggle to cover weekends and financial quarters once I leave the department.

I'm carefully considering how to move forward with this. I have a good week or so to decide, or come back with something.
 
Update: Wrote to the technical director with some points why I feel the offer should be higher and they've come back with an extra £3k. That'll do me nicely. This salary is now 5-10k above what most similar positions are offering in the area ,and is 13k more than previous basic.

Was well worth asking.

To achieve this level of income in my existing role I'd need to work around 40 Sundays a year, and work back the TOIL days, so 6 day, 50 hour weeks at least. If I hadn't hammered in the overtime in the last year I doubt they would have offered as much and then increased it.

Now I may need to cover maybe 5 or 6 Sundays a year to help out.
 
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