Internal PBX advise please

MJ · 11 Jan 2013 at 08:51

Hi All,

What are your opinions on internal PBX solutions and can you give me any advise from your previous experiences.

Currently we have to ISDN 30 which are both full, 30 channels each connecting to two patton media gateways then both of them into our pbx server. We are currently using snom one but it is awful.

Have been using it for three years even when it one pbxnsip but it is just no longer getting the support.

Ideally I would like a good reliable pbx software replacement, one which writes to sql tables so i can create a call board etc. At the moment I am thinking asterix or free-pbx which is asterix based.

Or am i looking at this all wrong, we are out of contract with out BT ISDN 30s so should I get a BT EFM line put into the building with BT SIP, will still need a PBX so any advise would be appreciated.

leigh_boy · 11 Jan 2013 at 09:12

used, snom and astrix, ( if you use astrix make sure you really lock it down from the out side world and check logs often) seen so many get hacked as its open source.
look at 3cx or interactive intelligance.. but my vote goes to 3cx

MJ · 11 Jan 2013 at 09:24

Isn't 3cx windows based? I need one which runs on a linux distro.

iaind · 11 Jan 2013 at 10:17

To be honest, it sounds like voice is a pretty key part of your business - I really wouldnt risk running free stuff and bodging things together

Firstly, your trunks - if you have 2 ISDN 30s and are hitting full channel usage in busy times, then maybe consider moving to SIP. KCom's SIP offering is very good - they wont run it over ADSL or internet connections - they'll provision fibre leased lines (usually a redundant pair) and manage the Cisco router remotely. I've used this before with 100 channels and it didnt work out any more expensive (per channel) than ISDN - smaller deployments will mean the installation charge makes it prohibitive but 50 channels up, it's well worth looking at.

Secondly, the hardware and PBX. Get yourself a solid, supported and redundant PBX system. I personally like Cisco for business critical deployments like this - you'd want 2 CUCM nodes at least (Depending on number of handsets), a CUBE for the SIP traffic and if you're running a call center then CUCX or one of the many third party queuing systems will manage this. Otherwise, Avaya Aura based systems will be pretty good too.

Telephony is NOT something to scrimp on, especially if you're running a call center

Yamahahahahaha · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:10

iaind said:
Firstly, your trunks - if you have 2 ISDN 30s and are hitting full channel usage in busy times, then maybe consider moving to SIP.

Definitely. You're looking at saving hundreds, maybe thousands a month on lines (you could keep one ISDN30 with 8 channels open or something as resilience). Not to mention the call costs from most SIP providers are lower than other services.
You should not be charged per 'connection' from your ITSP (SIP Provider), and the limit should be arbitrarily high (unlimited, effectively). Some companies will charge 'per connection' in a similar way to ISDN30, this is completely and utterly price gouging. Off the top of my head, Voipfone and Voip Unlimited do not adhere to that pricing structure.

As iaind mentions, look at getting a dedicated line. Some ISPs offer QoS'd lines right up to the handoff, usually at a premium.
You'll need about 64kbit/s per connection (good quality codec), perhaps look into a 10meg EFM from someone like Spitfire if you don't want to go full fibre.

iaind said:
Secondly, the hardware and PBX. Get yourself a solid, supported and redundant PBX system.

Telephony is NOT something to scrimp on, especially if you're running a call center

Definitely get something supported. Having a proper engineer on the end of the line is so valuable when it comes to pretty esoteric kit like phone systems.
There are a myriad of choices like Shoretel, Avaya, Cisco, Zultys, Microsoft Lync, Asterisk (sort of)... They all have advantages and disadvantages, so get your resellers to do the running around for you and find what suits your needs.

And definitely do not scrimp. Consider it as important as email and your website in terms of how your customers perceive you.

iaind · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:14

Yamahahahahaha said:
Definitely. You're looking at saving hundreds, maybe thousands a month on lines (you could keep one ISDN30 with 8 channels open or something as resilience). Not to mention the call costs from most SIP providers are lower than other services.
You should not be charged per 'connection' from your ITSP (SIP Provider), and the limit should be arbitrarily high (unlimited, effectively). Some companies will charge 'per connection' in a similar way to ISDN30, this is completely and utterly price gouging. Off the top of my head, Voipfone and Voip Unlimited do not adhere to that pricing structure.

Yep - when I had the SIP setup with KCom, it was based on 100 "channels" - but in reality this just affected the throughput of the circuits they put in - I believe we had dual 30mbit circuits so it would probably have done WAY more than 100 calls

I get fed up with people thinking they can do stuff for free and it be as effective. Yes, FreePBX is lovely if voice isnt too important to you, but compare it to the functionality of a proper PBX and it's a bit like saying you can use notepad to save buying an office license.

GhostlyPea · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:24

As ianid said really, although Id also consider and Avaya solution. We have one for ~400 users across multiple sites and have it now integrated with our Lync solution. Call centre in place too with (IMO) excessive use of call routing, reporting isnt too bad. So yeah, take a look

- GP

Yamahahahahaha · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:31

iaind said:
Yep - when I had the SIP setup with KCom, it was based on 100 "channels" - but in reality this just affected the throughput of the circuits they put in - I believe we had dual 30mbit circuits so it would probably have done WAY more than 100 calls

100 channels is like 400KB/s, so there's a ton of headroom in there for other things. Probably room enough for some low bandwidth video conferencing too!

iaind said:
I get fed up with people thinking they can do stuff for free and it be as effective. Yes, FreePBX is lovely if voice isnt too important to you, but compare it to the functionality of a proper PBX and it's a bit like saying you can use notepad to save buying an office license.

Absolutely. Asterisk is the same. A proper PBX lets you have a ton of extra functionality with much less hassle. As long as it's end-to-end SIP (or near enough) it'll be good.

iaind · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:33

Yamahahahahaha said:
Absolutely. Asterisk is the same. A proper PBX lets you have a ton of extra functionality with much less hassle. As long as it's end-to-end SIP (or near enough) it'll be good.

SCCP for the win

I'm very tempted to look at Lync a solution in my new job - small but technical company, old Panasonic TDM system needing replaced. Lync with Polycom phones looks like a great solution

GhostlyPea · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:39

Go for it. Exchange 2k10 integration is excellent, voice quality is excellent and it's working well for us with our Avaya system.

- GP

iaind · 11 Jan 2013 at 14:45

Need to upgrade to exchange 2010 too....big task list at the moment and I'm the sole sysadmin

There's something about running it as a PBX, rather than in conjunction with a proper one that seems.....strange. But I've read plenty of positive things and independent testing that suggests it's perfectly robust

Although when Avaya IP Office systems are so cheap, you wonder if its worth the bother and the extra cost of the "plus" licensing

GhostlyPea · 11 Jan 2013 at 15:45

Well we don't run IP Office (although Ive used it), we have the more advanced Aura System which is very in depth, more than we know what do to with. Lync as a solution however is actually very good when you consider it but it does lack a lot of the functionality that our Avaya system does. For example it doesnt do Call Centre. Redundancy? Just make sure your VMs are backed up and replicated to a new SAN and if everything dies just bring it up on another host! Granted that's easy enough for us but its very easy to restore and uptime would be excellent

- GP

Skidilliplop · 13 Jan 2013 at 22:40

iaind said:
Need to upgrade to exchange 2010 too....big task list at the moment and I'm the sole sysadmin

There's something about running it as a PBX, rather than in conjunction with a proper one that seems.....strange. But I've read plenty of positive things and independent testing that suggests it's perfectly robust

Although when Avaya IP Office systems are so cheap, you wonder if its worth the bother and the extra cost of the "plus" licensing

IP Office is cheap for a reason, it's crap compared to the full blown Call Manager and there are capacity limits which can become crippling down the line.

I'm responsible for 6 larger Avaya CM (Come Aura) systems two of which are in excess of 300 stations. I wouldn't think twice about rolling out 6 more. The full on call centre licensing with reporting is very expensive imo. But we ditched their BCMS and used our call logging software to do reporting + wallboard features. It seems there's lots of 3rd party stuff that will plug in just fine so you have options.
Mine all run with ISDN30, I think we probably have upwards of 70 channels across them all. I'd go SIP in a heartbeat despite spare channel capacity just for the cost savings alone, let alone resiliency yeilded by unbinding the calls from the physical lines. The only thing holding my case back is our systems are H.323 and don't support SIP natively, so we'd need a SIP gateway (or resilient pair of) and i dont' have the time right now to do the full cost benefit workup and manage the project. But it is nevertheless the way forward.

iaind · 14 Jan 2013 at 10:51

They do have limitations but they are solid and with some decent features. Where I am is 32 phones currently (Limitation of the panasonic pbx - 16 digital and 16 analogue!) and will probably never grow above 100 and that's a stretch

Anything larger I'd want a full blown setup, but the IPO definitely isnt cheap because its rubbish - if the limitations arent an issue then theyre great for small business

Any experience of Shoretel in here?

SMN · 14 Jan 2013 at 10:53

Used shoretel in a previous company, very flaky - but cheap (IIRC). You pay for what you get!

iaind · 14 Jan 2013 at 11:28

Interesting to know, thanks. Its just an unusual proposition, not one i've ever been overly convinced by

Skidilliplop · 14 Jan 2013 at 14:03

iaind said:
They do have limitations but they are solid and with some decent features. Where I am is 32 phones currently (Limitation of the panasonic pbx - 16 digital and 16 analogue!) and will probably never grow above 100 and that's a stretch

Anything larger I'd want a full blown setup, but the IPO definitely isnt cheap because its rubbish - if the limitations arent an issue then theyre great for small business

Any experience of Shoretel in here?

Your situation is different to the OP. For the OP IP Office would be rubbish as he's got two fully saturated ISDN30s, so he has absolutely minimum 60 stations, probably considerably more and very high call throughput. IPO would not be a good solution at all for this.

iaind · 14 Jan 2013 at 14:43

Skidilliplop said:
Your situation is different to the OP. For the OP IP Office would be rubbish as he's got two fully saturated ISDN30s, so he has absolutely minimum 60 stations, probably considerably more and very high call throughput. IPO would not be a good solution at all for this.

Of course - I had already reccomended otherwise, I just got a bit sidetracked by my own requirements

Especially as OP seems to have abandoned the thread