Internet without Openreach - options?

[Yadda]

I've had a problem with my FTTC broadband for the last 2 months which neither my ISP (supposedly one of the better ones for customer service) or Openreach have been able to resolve.

Unfortunately this has tarnished my opinion of the whole ISP-->OR setup we're cursed with in the UK and I'm looking at other options.

Apart from cable, what options are there for a reasonably fast connection (40Mb+) suitable for gaming that don't involve the Openreach infrastructure?

Thanks.

 

[Yadda]

There aren’t any. Unless you live in Hull or are served by Gigaclear/B4rn/Hyperoptic and there’s still an element of Openreach in some of those networks.

Above is correct I’m afraid...

Who is your ISP?

I was afraid that might be the case. I take it 4G latency is an issue?

I'm currently with Plusnet.

 

[Yadda]

I would have hoped Plusnet could sort it out. Any ideas what the problem is?

Speed down to ~8Mb from a solid 35Mb (for years).

You name it, they've suggested it, but nothing has fixed it. We're just going around in circles.

ISP: "Have you tried the test socket?"
ISP: "Oh, you're on our legacy system (? no idea), it was lucky I spotted that! (really?) Should be fixed now..." - Nope.
ISP: "have you tried the test socket?"
ISP: "Faults fixed at the exchange! Should be good now..." - Nope.
ISP: "Have you tried the test socket?"
OR engineer visit: "Your copper path is fine, the problem's upstream with your ISP".
ISP: "We'll arrange another engineer visit, have you tried the test socket?"

**** that for a game of soldiers!

 

[Yadda]

As has been said, your ISP doesn't control the profiles, DLM or speed capable due to both. Your ISP only gets control once it hits the exchange and crosses over onto their network. I'd ask Openreach to come out again and be ADAMANT that the Engineer calls DCoE (Digital Centre of Excellence, their escalation route) for advice.

Is your trained in speed actually 8192kbps? If so that definitely sounds like a profile issue which DCoE should be able to resolve.

Thanks. The speeds I quote are from the speed tests I've run (as instructed). Strangely, resetting the modem & router used to bring the speed back up to 35 for a day or so before dropping again but not today: after I swapped everything out at my end out (new modem, router, DSL cable and removing the faceplate and connecting through a microfilter into the test socket), now it just sits at 12 all the time.

Edit: according to the Plusnet router (the one I installed today, replacing my Tplink), my "DSL Line Status" is 35 down, 6.169 up. However, when I run a speed test (Ookla) I get 11.xx down.

@MissChief do you work for an ISP? If so can I ask which one? The fact you haven't asked if I've tried connecting through the test socket in every reply is a refreshing change from what I've been used to.

 

[Yadda]

If it's syncing at 35 and that's what the Op's been happy with for years, then i'm going with either user error (speedtest on wifi/VPN etc.) or using an inappropriate test location.
*snip*.

Fair enough, but I assure you it's not user error. Whether you believe me or not, bear in mind that the OR engineer saw the speed test results during his visit and also ran his own tests.

With Plusnet, if you haven't already then it's worth posting on Twitter, or on the community forums - make enough of a fuss and you'll get escalated to "gold" response (or whatever it is called) via Openreach.

Unfortunately had to do this on one occasion shortly after I joined Plusnet, but on the odd other occasion that I've had to contact Plusnet, I've not had any issues.

Thanks Armageus, I'll bear that in mind although to be honest I'm not sure I have the appetite to deal with them any more.

4G is generally a poor substitute for a fixed line overall - for instance though it can get great speeds you will often see very varied page loading time and pages with lots of different data elements can take far longer to finish loading it all in.

Gaming wise it is very hit and miss - for instance I currently have backup Vodafone 4G via my phone and Virgin Media 4G in a dedicated router with a proper installation so gets better reception than the Vodafone (in theory) as well as my FTTC.

FTTC gets 70Mbit down, 19MBit up and flat 6ms latency to UK game servers.
Vodafone 4G 50Mbit down, 25Mbit up and fairly stable ~30ms latency
Virgin 4G 30Mbit down, 10Mbit up and moderately varied 100ms latency

FTTC is good for gaming, the Vodafone connection is pretty much like playing games on ADSL with interleaving on so reasonable it is very playable but you do slightly notice the latency while the Virgin connection is playable but far from an ideal experience and gets some intermittent pauses.

However I've tried playing on the Vodafone connection in several different parts of the country and I don't have to go far from my current location and it performs similar to the Virgin Media one and probably vice versa if I moved the VM connection elsewhere there are probably places where it is almost as good as a fixed connection. I've been to some places where 4G would be completely unplayable with latency constantly spiking to 1000+ms, etc.

Thanks Rroff.

It looks like I'm stuck with <an ISP> & Openreach. Looking through the UK ISP customer reviews doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Choosing one is like deciding which testicle I'd like to be kicked. Anyway, mysteriously my speed test result seems to be about 32 at the moment even though nothing's changed as far as I know so that's something, at least.

Edit:

Missed this one.

Objecting to Plusnet repeating the test socket suggestion and their warnings that he may be charged if Openreach come out and find a fault with the OP's equipment is just silly.

You're entitled to your opinion but they have lost my confidence. Some of us don't enjoy going round and around the same merry-go-round, being asked and told the same things over and over again. Especially when it conflicts with what someone else has said. It reeks of shambles and I have no more time for it.

 

[Yadda]

You need to remember that people that have no issues rarely go on forums to talk about it whereas those with issues seem to think it’s some sort of personal vendetta against them by the company and feel the need to express their feelings every and any time they can.

Yes, I get that. I'm not actually talking about the general complaints, more the number of people across all common ISP's with seemingly unsolvable long-term issues being given the run-around. It's staggering.

 

[Yadda]

The issue is that the ISP doesn’t have direct control over Openreach or the lines and the service levels they take with Openreach vary wildly from ISP to ISP. Some take a basic service with Time Related Charges pared to the bone so if the Engineer doesn’t find anything on their first test they close the fault as the ISP hasn’t paid for any extra time onsite and while the Engineer might have the best of intentions their manager sees they’re on a job for an hour when the ISP is on the lowest TRC level and is on at them to close the fault as NFF if their test doesn’t identify anything immediately. Other ISP’s pay for extra time and a higher level of service so get faster responses and potentially more time to investigate thoroughly. Of course this is reflected in the price the customer pays and price (generally) wins in customers mind as they don’t understand or know about Openreach’s levels of service.

To be fair, the engineer spent a fair bit of time here (In addition to running speed tests on my PC and running his own tests, he even set up my "spare" modem/router to see if it made any difference) and then went to the exchange (I think it was the exchange) to run further tests there before calling me to tell me his results and conclusion. That's when he told me "nothing to do with us, guv" (or words to that effect ) and passed it back to the ISP.

I get that the industry is more complicated than customers appreciate but honestly, that's not my responsibility. All I care about is getting the problem fixed efficiently so I can get the service I'm paying for.

 

[Yadda]

Is the bt_speedtest@startup_domain still a thing?

If so you could login with that and run a speedtest on the wholesale site to see what you get.

Thanks. They've seen my BT Wholesale speed checker results. I was asked to run that back in December.

 

[Yadda]

Did you change your username to that one I specified?

If so I guess it was exactly the same?

Sorry, no - there was no mention of usernames. I just ran it.

Edit: I'll give it a go if (when?) the speed drops again (as I mentioned, it's unusually pretty fast at the moment).

 

[Yadda]

Can Plusnet cease and reprovide @Yadda? Might mean being without service for a bit though.

I don't know. They never mentioned it and it's not really my place to suggest it. Besides, I've already told them I've had enough and the last trouble ticket entry reflects this (updated by customer support after the last phone convo). I didn't shout or swear (although I nearly did when "test socket" was brought up yet again ) but I was considerably ****** off and basically told them to stuff it.

 

[Yadda]

So you are testing via a wired connection direct to the router? Have used multiple nearby speedtest servers and done a basic traceroute?

Spitting your dummy out only benefits OR/PN. Unfortunately refusing a further OR visit is going to prevent them from investigating/resolving the issue and leaves you uncompensatable as you’re actively refusing reasonable attempts to resolve the issue, it would also be ironic if switching ISP’s yielded no change and still required a OR visit.

My current BT issue started on Black Friday (November) and has resulted in at least 7 appointments of which BT have failed to attend or booked out the wrong engineers to all but two. I’ve told them how to resolve it since the 21/12, even had a final deadlock letter from BT stating i’m wrong, only for them to suddenly cave in and agree with me a week ago after going an indirect route via a 3rd party/the press office, this is at CEO’s office level, you’d hope for better, but then again i’m paying a pittance for what a I get, if I was paying for a business class service with SLA, things would likely be different.

Your options are to accept OR will need to attend to properly investigate the issue, move ISP and pray to whatever imaginary friend you believe in that it’ll work as it did pre-fault, accept the fault and live with it, or find an alternative method of connection, the choice is yours

Mate, with respect, you're asking the same day 1 questions I've already answered many times, and I'm already aware of my options, thanks.

Oh, and I don't consider walking away from what I consider to be a **** service as "spitting my dummy out", but you can disagree if you want to.

 

[Yadda]

Why do people feel the need to say 'with respect'? The point being that the statement denotes that you feel the need to preempt someone feeling entitled to be offended. It's a networking forum, i'm more likely to be offended by people who have chosen to use a router that looks like a transformer crapped itself (aka ASUS), not if you have an alternative opinion

Anyway, they may well be the same 'day one questions' but as of now you've still to post a single test result, confirm you're not running a VPN, are using a wired connection, have tried multiple speedtest servers and post a trace route and you asked specifically what were your options in the OP. Out of millions of customers connected in the UK to any ISP, a small minority have issues from time to time, co-operate with your ISP and they will resolve it and if they get it wrong, they will compensate you accordingly. Spitting your dummy out, calling them names and refusing to have a OR tech re-attend eliminates you from any further assistance from your ISP or compensation for loss of service. Hopefully - as it's now working - it stays that way, if not then 'with respect' it's time to suck it up buttercup

Thanks, tough guy.

"With respect" was a nice way of saying you don't know what you're talking about. Obviously wasted on you, huh?

Do you honestly think after 2 months of troubleshooting and an OR engineer visit, that you're the first person to ask if I'm connecting over a wired connection to the router? Really?

You also say I've "called them names". Care to show me where I've done that?

You waded into this thread confidently declaring "user error" and then decided to start asking the basic questions. Can I suggest that you reconsider your troubleshooting method so as not to appear so stupid?

Anyway, there we are.