Is audiophile PC gaming possible?

Boozebeard · 27 Jan 2011 at 15:18

Are you going to review/go over some amps and sound cards/dacs after headphones? (yes, it's me from the head-fi forums

)

It's been really helpful so far, think I'm going to go for a pair of NS1000. Just need to decide what's going to drive them

You might want to explain somewhere what impedance actually means/does? Unless you did and I missed it.

Duke_ · 27 Jan 2011 at 15:39

EdwardTeach said:
Informative. Thanks.

I am considering buying a soundcard soon. I have a pair of goldring ns1000's.

Trouble is I have a baby daughter, and I need to be able to hear when she wakes up in the night. Therefore I find the ns1000's are actually a bit too effective at blocking out the noise, and I often just use some cheapo headphones I knicked from a ba flight! As such I am not sure a soundcard is worth it currently.

Have you tried plugging in a mic into your PC / Amp and placing it next to the baby monitor, better still hard wire the baby monitor to your line in...

Anyone else see the market opportunity for a Baby monitor PCI card!?

Global_Inferno · 27 Jan 2011 at 15:41

Boozebeard said:
Are you going to review/go over some amps and sound cards/dacs after headphones? (yes, it's me from the head-fi forums )

Yes, yes I am!

Although my experience with external DACs is almost non-existent, but as I have yet to find one that will deliver any form of Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D (other than the Astro MixAmp), I can't see them being on my list... Perhaps Uriel/Rob might think of something I'm overlooking?!

Boozebeard said:
It's been really helpful so far, think I'm going to go for a pair of NS1000. Just need to decide what's going to drive them

Good! I'm glad people are finding it helpful!

Boozebeard said:
You might want to explain somewhere what impedance actually means/does? Unless you did and I missed it.

Good point. Perhaps I'll do a quick Part 4 now on impedance, or add it to the top of Part 3...

Uriel · 27 Jan 2011 at 15:48

Plenty of full size AV receivers support Dolby Headphone. Harman Kardon, Marantz and Denon spring to mind. I've heard rumours that Harman Kardon headphone amps built into receivers tend to be pretty good.

The SU-DH1 is the only portable version I'm aware if that supports DH1, DH2 and DH3. Others are restricted to DH2. It's not the best for high impedance headphones though and I tend to just use it as a receiver / pre-amp with another amp driving the headphones.

Global_Inferno · 27 Jan 2011 at 15:52

Uriel said:
Plenty of full size AV receivers support Dolby Headphone. Harman Kardon, Marantz and Denon spring to mind. I've heard rumours that Harman Kardon headphone amps built into receivers tend to be pretty good.

The SU-DH1 is the only portable version I'm aware if that supports DH1, DH2 and DH3. Others are restricted to DH2.

Sorry, I'd kinda ruled out full-szied AV receivers due to their size, but agreed, quite a lot do support DH so I guess I should mention them, even if they aren't exactly a desktop peripheral.

The SU-DH1 I was already planning on mentioning, however I wonder about the quality of the DAC in it compared with a high end sound card however... vs. a Xonar D2X for example?

Global_Inferno · 27 Jan 2011 at 16:21

Global_Inferno said:
Good point. Perhaps I'll do a quick Part 4 now on impedance, or add it to the top of Part 3...

Added at the top of Part 3, with a link to a more detailed explanation.

Uriel · 27 Jan 2011 at 22:52

Well if we're really talking about money no-object audiophile gaming with headphones, I think the current state of the art would be something like:

Auzentech X-Fi Hometheatre HD http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_hometheater_hd.php

Plus

SVS Realiser http://www.smyth-research.com/products.html

The latter is widely regarded as the best headphone virtualisation technology currently available. It comes with a set of Stax but you could plug in whatever you like. The idea is that you calibrate it in a high end home cinema room or recording studio. It records your own unique HTRF, calibrated for the headphones you're using and will replicate that speaker system perfectly. If you imagine Dolby Headphone but taken to the point where it's completely indistinguishable from the speaker system that was 'captured' plus add head tracking so the room and speakers remain in place while you move your head you're there. Just add a tactile transducer to give the tactile feedback you're always missing with headphones from really deep bass.

Think it's still a couple of grand though...

Not tried this myself but I'd like to.

Global_Inferno · 27 Jan 2011 at 23:12

Haha.. I wish I could even just try that setup, but I find it unlikely that I ever will!

It's not that money is no object; everything I'm doing is on a budget, I don't want people to spend money just for the sake of it. I want people to get the best "bang for their buck" as it were.

Global_Inferno · 29 Jan 2011 at 16:49

*** Ignore this post, I made a new thread http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18235727 ***

Global_Inferno · 31 Jan 2011 at 23:00

OK, I've got a FiiO E9 amp on order, so I'll post up some reactions once it's arrived.

Xerco · 1 Feb 2011 at 02:21

some great info for someone like me who didnt have a great understanding of the audio side to computing.

thanks

PhoenixSP · 1 Feb 2011 at 02:59

will you be getting the fiio e7 as well global ?

Global_Inferno · 1 Feb 2011 at 09:40

PhoenixSP said:
will you be getting the fiio e7 as well global ?

Not at present, I may look into "borrowing" one so that I can give it a try, however the E7 is a bit of a weird one; primarily it's a DAC, although it does have a (reasonably) small amp built in too.

As a DAC for gaming use, it doesn't have any surround sound effects like Dolby Headphone / CMSS-3D, so while it's worth considering for a music setup, I'm not sure how it can fit into a gaming setup. Also, if you want it just for the amp, the E5 is probably a better (and cheaper) option, or like me, the E9 if you want something a bit more "solid".

Uriel · 1 Feb 2011 at 09:56

I agree about DACs for gaming use. Due to the lack of adequate HTRF based headphone modes in games - extra processing from a soundcard is essential.

For soundcards with that can can output stereo pcm on optical or coaxial with Dolby Headphone (my Xonar D2 could do this) a DAC-amp could be a nice upgrade though. I tested this briefly using my SU-DH1 (with Dolby on the Xonar and no processing on the SU-DH1) but that's not the highest grade DAC / Amp in the world. Same principle though.

Global_Inferno · 1 Feb 2011 at 10:24

Uriel said:
I agree about DACs for gaming use. Due to the lack of adequate HTRF based headphone modes in games - extra processing from a soundcard is essential.

For soundcards with that can can output stereo pcm on optical or coaxial with Dolby Headphone (my Xonar D2 could do this) a DAC-amp could be a nice upgrade though. I tested this briefly using my SU-DH1 (with Dolby on the Xonar and no processing on the SU-DH1) but that's not the highest grade DAC / Amp in the world. Same principle though.

Yeah, I mean you could run some sort of hybrid setup, like a Xonar D2X which encodes a 5.1 signal into Dolby Headphone over DTS Connect, then pipe that through to a DAC/Amp via optical, perhaps get a bit better quality that way, but the whole setup would probably cost quite a lot more.

Uriel · 1 Feb 2011 at 10:33

In this case I'm talking about the Xonar D2 encoding Dolby Headphone - then outputting it as stereo PCM at up to 192khz 24 bit. No need to use DTS Connect. You can then use any DAC that takes stereo PCM - giving a lot more choice

Means that there's no need for lossy compression using Dolby Digital or DTS. Theoretically this would give better quality than DDL or DTS Connect to a receiver and letting the receiver do the Dolby Headphone bit.

Might work on other Xonars - depending on drivers. I tried it on Windows Vista x64, using whatever drivers were standard at the time (about 1 1/2 years ago).

Global_Inferno · 1 Feb 2011 at 10:43

Ah I see... Uncompressed PCM Stereo would be pretty sweet, as then it's entirely up to the quality of the DAC. However, when audio needs to be encoded/decoded in a chain potentially as long as this, I start worrying about latency... Did you have any issues Uriel?

Uriel · 1 Feb 2011 at 10:49

Not a long chain really. Probably quicker to encode to Dolby Headphone than Dolby Digital or DTS.

I have come across latency issues with my X-FI prelude and SU-DH1. With DTS Connect it's fine but with Dolby Digital Live there can be a significant delay. I'm not sure if the latency is the fault of the soundcard or receiver.

Global_Inferno · 1 Feb 2011 at 12:49

Uriel said:
Not a long chain really. Probably quicker to encode to Dolby Headphone than Dolby Digital or DTS.

I have come across latency issues with my X-FI prelude and SU-DH1. With DTS Connect it's fine but with Dolby Digital Live there can be a significant delay. I'm not sure if the latency is the fault of the soundcard or receiver.

True, so I might have to look for some DACs that can take in a PCM 2-channel signal...

Uriel · 1 Feb 2011 at 15:16

A colleague just offered to let me borrow his Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 amp so will post some impressions of it with HD600, DT770 Pro, DR150 and NS1000 at some point.

Will be interesting as it will be the highest end amp I've tried. Much more expensive than anything else I own.