Is buying a monitor this difficult?

inverseSquare

inverseSquare

inverseSquare

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I can't remember when buying another bit of hardware seemed so difficult :)


I've been looking for a new monitor for photo editing / games


A good starting point seemed to be an IPS panel screen such as the Dell U2412 or Asus PA248Q.


But then I start reading about Pulse Wave Modulation (PWM) in screen backlighting and I'm not sure if it effects me. I try to find out if my current old screen (Dell 2007FP) had people complaining about flicker and the answer seems to be: some people did. So am I not effected by flicker or is my old monitor just 'a good one'?


Ok, so how about not buying a screen that uses PWM backlight dimming? Well, the Dell 2413 doesn't (the thorough TFT Central review tested it) but I'm then reading about 'overshoot'? A good example of it on U2413 youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA1wXO7gPIo Hmm, that 'shadow' wouldn't be ok for me.


Aha, but the Asus PA248Q has a setting to control the 'overdrive' called 'Trace Free' - sounds like a good idea? Ah, but the PA248Q uses PWM backlight dimming control (again thanks to the TFT Central review) so what about it's more expensive brother, the PA249Q? Well, it's wide gamut so I'd probably feel even more need to buy a proper calibration tool. On inspection however, it seems like the PA249Q doesn't have the 'trace control' setting?

So I've even been looking as far as the Eizo EV2436W, it's 'flicker free' but doesn't have a HDMI port. Not essential, but for that sort of money I'd like the extra flexibility...





I've read so many reviews and people posting on forums about problems, difficulty getting some companies to return monitors with dead pixels, glittering anti-glare coating, backlight bleed, IPS 'glow' etc. that I really don't know if I can order any of the monitors I've seen with confidence.

I'd add that everyone on the OC forums has been very helpful, I'm just tearing my hair out over the choices :)

If someone could release a 1920x1200 16:10 IPS screen with flicker-free backlighting, 'overdrive' control, 1:1 mode & HDMI port for around £300-350 now would be a good time :D


Thanks for reading :)
 
I feel your pain I really do :(

Admittedly I'm looking at 16:9 but other than that I'm in the same boat as you.

As soon as I find a monitor that ticks all the right boxes shortly after I find people experiencing problems with the model :(

starting to get a bit fed up if I'm honest :(
 
I'm deliberating over a 2560x1440 monitor. Seems a nearly impossible choice without going very expensive.

Or getting a couple of extra 24s and tripple screening. But then i deffo want 16:10 (as my current monitor is) But the cheaper screens of this res are all 1080p, and the more expensive screens of this rez will likely make my current monitor feel out of place.

A 27" is what i want but it seems like such an insane gamble and as you say, at 24, or 27" its just impossible to get one that ticks the boxes without one potentially risky flaw.

Really winding me up! Also I can fob off getting 1 monitor, but buying 2 24s (even if its the same price as 1 27) looks bad and i'll get an ear full.
 
sadbuttrue said:
Benq BL2411pt <£240
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was going to recommend, although like the vast majority of monitors it doesn't feature 1:1 scaling (as far as I'm aware). I'm not sure if the OP said why he wanted 1:1 scaling, specifically? If it is for PC use then the GPU can do that readily.

As an aside I shall be reviewing the BL2411PT very shortly. IFA in Berlin is also just around the corner and I expect Dell to release some new models (including perhaps a U2412M replacement) later this year.
 
bit of a dilema i agree. Let me try and put your mind at ease a bit:

PWM (Pulse WIDTH Modulation by the way :)) - your current Dell 2007FP uses PWM for backlight dimming, as do 99% of all displays in the market. It's been used for many many years without issue and is a widely accepted method for backlight control. If you've noty had issues with your current screen with eye strain, headaches etc then I doubt you would see any issues with either the U2412M or PA248Q to be honest. Most people don't find it an issue. There is slightly more chance you would see issues with those new screens given their use of W-LED backlights (see this article) as the brightness curves are "sharper" on LED than on older CCFL backlights. Your 2007FP is CCFL by the way. I wouldn't worry too much about PWM flicker unless you've had problems before to be honest.

AG Coating - your current screen uses the old style "heavy" and grainy AG coating, so again unless you've seen problems with that then you won't find problems with the U2412M/PA248Q. Again it's been used for many years, and most people don't even notice it. true, newer IPS panels have a lighter coating,. but you know what to expect given your current screen anyway


Overshoot - this can happen to any panel where the overdrive control is applied too aggressively. I would avoid any of the new U2413, U2713H or U3014 models for any gaming really, as the overdrive is too aggressive (and you cant turn it off) and causes some very noticeable overshoot problems as you've seen from those reviews. To be fair, the Dell U2412M also has some issues and you can see some dark trails in the pixperan tests on TFTCentral (before we had an oscilloscope to measure in the same way as more recent reviews sadly). The Asus has the overdrive control (Trace Free) and you can eliminate most of the overshoot by lowering that setting. If you're gaming, then that model might give you more flexibility

Wide gamut - unless you specifically need it, i would avoid it personally. it will cause too many problems with colour management and you'll pay over the odds for the screen when you don't need it. The Asus PA249Q is using the same panel as the Dell U2713H. We havent seen any confirmation of it being PWM, but there's a good chance it is. Not sure about responsiveness either, but i'd probably avoid if you dont need wide gamut.


IPS glow - this is a "feature" of modern IPS panels due to the pixel structure, and the lack of any additional films like the A-TW polarizer they used to sometimes use to improve wide angle blacks. You will see this "glow" if you view dark content from an angle in a dark room, but in normal day to day use its not likely to be a big problem. It becomes more problematic on larger screens like 27-30" due to the sheer size, and the fact the corners are always at quite an angle to your line of sight when viewing it head on. With a 24" screen it's "small" enough to not be a big problem.



The Eizo EV2436W is an interesting choice and you're entering a higher end range, and with additional cost there. there's a review on Prad.de if you've not already seen it.
 
The problem is that there are so many screen technologies out there that are good and bad at different things, there is no overall monitor that is good at everything. A fast monitor will have poor colours and viewing angles, a monitor with good colour will be slow and expensive, etc. There just is no technology that supplies everything that would make a monitor that is good at everything in one package.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone :)

sadbuttrue said:
Benq BL2411pt <£240
Click to expand...

Hmm, now that does look interesting. Will read into that further, thanks!

PCM2 said:
Exactly what I was going to recommend, although like the vast majority of monitors it doesn't feature 1:1 scaling (as far as I'm aware). I'm not sure if the OP said why he wanted 1:1 scaling, specifically? If it is for PC use then the GPU can do that readily.

As an aside I shall be reviewing the BL2411PT very shortly. IFA in Berlin is also just around the corner and I expect Dell to release some new models (including perhaps a U2412M replacement) later this year.
Click to expand...

It'll be used 99% of the time as a PC monitor..

Only reason for 1:1 is so I can plug a PS3 (and perhaps PS4 in the future) into it without stretching the frame. Neither HDMI or 1:1 mode are deal-breakers tbh. I'd rather have decent colour, responce time, lag, backlight, etc...

Was just thinking that if I ended up spending £400 on a monitor I'd want all the bells-and-whistles :)

I'd certainly be interested in a Benq BL2411pt review :)

Baddass said:
bit of a dilema i agree. Let me try and put your mind at ease a bit:

PWM (Pulse WIDTH Modulation by the way :)) - your current Dell 2007FP uses PWM for backlight dimming, as do 99% of all displays in the market. It's been used for many many years without issue and is a widely accepted method for backlight control. If you've noty had issues with your current screen with eye strain, headaches etc then I doubt you would see any issues with either the U2412M or PA248Q to be honest. Most people don't find it an issue. There is slightly more chance you would see issues with those new screens given their use of W-LED backlights (see this article) as the brightness curves are "sharper" on LED than on older CCFL backlights. Your 2007FP is CCFL by the way. I wouldn't worry too much about PWM flicker unless you've had problems before to be honest.

AG Coating - your current screen uses the old style "heavy" and grainy AG coating, so again unless you've seen problems with that then you won't find problems with the U2412M/PA248Q. Again it's been used for many years, and most people don't even notice it. true, newer IPS panels have a lighter coating,. but you know what to expect given your current screen anyway


Overshoot - this can happen to any panel where the overdrive control is applied too aggressively. I would avoid any of the new U2413, U2713H or U3014 models for any gaming really, as the overdrive is too aggressive (and you cant turn it off) and causes some very noticeable overshoot problems as you've seen from those reviews. To be fair, the Dell U2412M also has some issues and you can see some dark trails in the pixperan tests on TFTCentral (before we had an oscilloscope to measure in the same way as more recent reviews sadly). The Asus has the overdrive control (Trace Free) and you can eliminate most of the overshoot by lowering that setting. If you're gaming, then that model might give you more flexibility

Wide gamut - unless you specifically need it, i would avoid it personally. it will cause too many problems with colour management and you'll pay over the odds for the screen when you don't need it. The Asus PA249Q is using the same panel as the Dell U2713H. We havent seen any confirmation of it being PWM, but there's a good chance it is. Not sure about responsiveness either, but i'd probably avoid if you dont need wide gamut.


IPS glow - this is a "feature" of modern IPS panels due to the pixel structure, and the lack of any additional films like the A-TW polarizer they used to sometimes use to improve wide angle blacks. You will see this "glow" if you view dark content from an angle in a dark room, but in normal day to day use its not likely to be a big problem. It becomes more problematic on larger screens like 27-30" due to the sheer size, and the fact the corners are always at quite an angle to your line of sight when viewing it head on. With a 24" screen it's "small" enough to not be a big problem.



The Eizo EV2436W is an interesting choice and you're entering a higher end range, and with additional cost there. there's a review on Prad.de if you've not already seen it.
Click to expand...

That's very helpful, appreciated :)

So maybe that Asus PA248Q would be ok afterall, just a shame it's >£300, a fair bit more than the Dell 2412.

I'm going to steer around the wide gamut options for the reasons you mentioned, I was just looking at them as they seem to more often feature 'flicker free' backlights? Either way, they do look to complicate things for general use.


Do you have any opinions on that Benq BL2411pt?
A quick look seems to suggest the same panel as the Dell 2412 & Asus PA248Q, some overdrive control, flicker-free backlight, and it's 'only' around the £230-250 mark.
Doesn't seem to be very popular though? Not much forums chatter?

I'm not very familiar with BenQ either, where would you put them with respect to other brands?





Thanks everyone, great help as always :)
 
Read some Benq BL2411pt reviews...


Translated Prad.de review seems to doubt its sutability as a monitor for image editing..

"Is not optimal color purity of the monitor, which is unfavorable for image editing" (via Google Translate)
from - http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-benq-bl2411pt-teil9.html


I think this is mainly due to the high DeltaE on the lower left side of the screen in the brightness distribution and colour uniformity testing:

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-benq-bl2411pt-teil6.html




However the Extrahardware.com review doesn't seem to mention this?
http://www.extrahardware.com/articl...lly-destroy-flickering-dell-u2412m/strana/0/5

Nothing worrying about colour uniformity in the final conclusion either:
http://www.extrahardware.com/articl...ly-destroy-flickering-dell-u2412m/strana/0/11


Hope that means Prad.de were just unlucky with their copy?
 
Thanks Baddass thats a lot of interesting details only just started looking at getting new 27 inch screen just for gaming going be harder then I thought not in any rush anytime this year have a £500 budget maybe more for a good one.

Viewsonic VP2770 2560X1440 at around £500 looks great.
 
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Not a whole lot of chatter about the Benq BL2411pt?

Can just find a couple of reviews and couple of mentions from people who've bought them.

Can't find them for sale on OC or even listed on the BenQ online store?




Has anyone on here bought one? :)
 
inverseSquare said:
Read some Benq BL2411pt reviews...


Translated Prad.de review seems to doubt its sutability as a monitor for image editing..

"Is not optimal color purity of the monitor, which is unfavorable for image editing" (via Google Translate)
from - http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-benq-bl2411pt-teil9.html


I think this is mainly due to the high DeltaE on the lower left side of the screen in the brightness distribution and colour uniformity testing:

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-benq-bl2411pt-teil6.html




However the Extrahardware.com review doesn't seem to mention this?
http://www.extrahardware.com/articl...lly-destroy-flickering-dell-u2412m/strana/0/5

Nothing worrying about colour uniformity in the final conclusion either:
http://www.extrahardware.com/articl...ly-destroy-flickering-dell-u2412m/strana/0/11


Hope that means Prad.de were just unlucky with their copy?
Click to expand...

First post here seems to suggest a difference between the Extrahardware and Prad BL2411PT models:

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic...s-24inch-ips-wo-flickering-pwm-zero-input-lag
 
Prad's sweeping statements in the conclusion (particularly when translated) can often contradict their actual test data and analysis for a specific section. Their test data shows quite a decent out-of-the-box setup and is backed up by these sorts of comments (translated):

"For normal work in the field office, internet and video, the color reproduction is perfect, even for color work she already gets a good rating, which is quite rare in consumer monitors."

This may be in relation to the flexibility in controlling brightness rather than the overall colour setup, but they also say:

"Despite our stringent criteria in sRGB mode, the BL2411PT already shines from the factory with a high note."

.................................................................

For more demanding users, a factory calibration will of course improve things further (that's always the case to some degree). But Prad also states:

"After calibration, the BL2411PT can convince with good color reproduction, for color-critical applications. For most users, the improvements over the already good factory setting, but can not justify buying a colorimeter".

They are clearly positive about the overall image performance of the monitor. The deviations across the screen relating to white point and brightness vary between individual samples so that isn't a negative that can be flat out attributed to this monitor. And it would certainly not be alone in this sort of variation. I will be reviewing the BL2411PT myself very shortly, too.
 
PCM2 said:
Prad's sweeping statements in the conclusion (particularly when translated) can often contradict their actual test data and analysis for a specific section. Their test data shows quite a decent out-of-the-box setup and is backed up by these sorts of comments (translated):

"For normal work in the field office, internet and video, the color reproduction is perfect, even for color work she already gets a good rating, which is quite rare in consumer monitors."

This may be in relation to the flexibility in controlling brightness rather than the overall colour setup, but they also say:

"Despite our stringent criteria in sRGB mode, the BL2411PT already shines from the factory with a high note."

.................................................................

For more demanding users, a factory calibration will of course improve things further (that's always the case to some degree). But Prad also states:

"After calibration, the BL2411PT can convince with good color reproduction, for color-critical applications. For most users, the improvements over the already good factory setting, but can not justify buying a colorimeter".

They are clearly positive about the overall image performance of the monitor. The deviations across the screen relating to white point and brightness vary between individual samples so that isn't a negative that can be flat out attributed to this monitor. And it would certainly not be alone in this sort of variation. I will be reviewing the BL2411PT myself very shortly, too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that :)

I'm holding off buying currently because I can't seem to find stock in the usual places (with OC being at the top of that list of course! ;)). I can't even spot it in the BenQ store?

Is it recently launched?


I want to deal with a company I know so currently no sale...

Looking forward to your review :)
 
inverseSquare said:
Thanks for that :)

I'm holding off buying currently because I can't seem to find stock in the usual places (with OC being at the top of that list of course! ;)). I can't even spot it in the BenQ store?

Is it recently launched?


I want to deal with a company I know so currently no sale...

Looking forward to your review :)
Click to expand...

Yes it is a very recent launch. Full retail capacity in the UK certainly isn't there yet, most places where it's available are selling direct EU import stock. The situation should improve shortly.
 
im kind of in the same boat, if i could tick all the boxes for a monitor i'd go out and buy 2 of them tomorrow. trouble is there are no monitors that do that. i wish there were, it would make choosing so much easier. i'm on a monitor for days on end for very long periods, had eye test recently and i do not need glasses and yet my eyes hurt after a time whichcould possibly mean eye strain is starting to become a factor. so for me finding a monitor that helps this is a plus as well as good colours, viewing angles and response time.

i cant wait for the day when all monitor have technology that suits every need whether it be gaming , art work, reading or watching movies.

every year i watch CES and get my hopes up that one of the manufactures will come up with a monitor that get 90% there with what i want, but my hopes get dashed. OLED might be it but that is years away from be coming affordable to the masses

just have to keep hoping i suppose
 
out of interest i am using a NEC 24WMGX3 what monitor would you recommend currently as an upgrade, i mainly use it for 3D work Gaming and Photoshop.

this is more a question for PCM2 but all can chip in.

P
 
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