Is Diesel Inferior?

Soldato
Joined
25 Oct 2004
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Cambridge
Sometime I see large cars, a new 7 series BWM for example, with a diesel engine in and find myself thinking “why would you do that”. If you’re loosing £15k a year in depreciation why would you worry about saving a couple £k a year at the most in fuel, especially when there are some cracking petrol engines available for the same price that will make the drive better and the car quieter and faster (if you ever wanted to get somewhere in a hurry).

The stance on here is usually petrol is better, full stop. I find myself thinking; is it just irrational that people buy these large diesels or maybe they’re just not inferior? Maybe some people prefer diesel for some reason, anyone on here of that position?

I appreciate that the majority of people buy these cars as company cars and there is the company car tax to be taken in to account, again though, is the saving that large or worth it?

Maybe for some Diesel isn’t a cost effective option but they just prefer the drive and power delivery, is that possible or are these people deluded?
 
I've yet to experience a 'big, proper' 6/8/10 cyl diesel like you'd find in a 'premium' car, but I can see the appeal. I can't see the appeal of crappy 4cylinder diesel engines that people cite as being 'rapid' and 'ride the wave of torque' to mask the only reason they bought it, which is teh mpgz. Every single 4cyl diesel I've driven has been hateful.

Running costs are the main reason.
 
I appreciate that the majority of people buy these cars as company cars and there is the company car tax to be taken in to account, again though, is the saving that large or worth it?

Maybe for some Diesel isn’t a cost effective option but they just prefer the drive and power delivery, is that possible or are these people deluded?

Petrol might be better, you might prefer diesel but the BIK difference between petrol and diesel is HUGE, especially on cars like the 7 series / S class.

Also, cars like this are more likely to drive significant distances where the fuel economy difference really does stack up.
 
I think with enough cylinders and capacity the downside of diesel is less pronounced.

Its those horrible 2 litre things that are a menace.
 
Less time spent in petrol stations too, more time for doing boss things like the Secretary or writing memos
 
I've yet to experience a 'big, proper' 6/8/10 cyl diesel like you'd find in a 'premium' car, but I can see the appeal. I can't see the appeal of crappy 4cylinder diesel engines that people cite as being 'rapid' and 'ride the wave of torque' to mask the only reason they bought it, which is teh mpgz. Every single 4cyl diesel I've driven has been hateful.

Running costs are the main reason.

I'm seeing this a lot more now.

Majority of the people buying diesels now are only boiling it down to the end product MPG.

Was talking to someone as they were looking at getting a new car which was diesel they were looking at, baring in mind this person does **** all mileage wise per year, as they cycle into work majority of days, but his only reasoning behind getting a diesel was "more MPG"?? :s

Like I've said before, it's one of my lifetime goals, not to fill up a car privately owned by me from the black pump of doom, the future is green here.
 
I've driven a Merc E320 CDI a fair bit, and while it isn't exactly the epitome of modern diesel technology, I can certainly see why people like them. Plenty of torque, relatively quiet operation, and went quite well when you stick your foot down :)
 
I like my 330d not only for the MPG it gives, but also for it's power delivery.

Having driven an e46 330i as well, I actually prefer the power curve of the diesel.
 
Diesel is popular because diesel cars are more efficient. This is the bottom line - this is what has driven diesel development over the last few decades and this is why they are now so prevelant. You only need to look at markets where fuel cost is not a factor and see how few diesel cars there are to perfectly demonstrate this.

Even people who beleive they choose a diesel because of the power delivery are in reality choosing diesel primarily for cost reasons. It is completely true that a decent turbodiesel offers a specific style of torque-led power delivery that lots of people like. However this style of power delivery is also offered by turbocharged petrol engines, V8 petrol engines and V12 petrol engines. A 760 can waft as well as, if not better, than a 730d. So can a 750i.

But these engines will do this by consuming vast amounts of fuel, making them completely impractical for most people in a country like the UK. The diesel therefore offers a cost effective way of acheiving the level of power delivery they want. The other benefit of a big diesel in a car like that is the increased tank range, but in reality few people do the miles where this will be a massive benefit.

Our car market is now shaping itself such that diesel is becoming the only real option. Nobody offers a large capacity engine in your typical hatch as people wont buy it, so the diesel becomes the best buy. Not because its better than a big petrol but because its the only choice.

Next up is our company car tax, biased towards CO2 output whilst ignoring all the other nasties. Lower Co2 = lower tax. It's that simple. Big V8 = big tax. So you get the 2.0 TDI S-Line not the 4.2 V8 FSI. Which is too expensive for you anyway.

So there we have it. Diesel is becoming a credible alternative but it will always be about cost.

Doubtless there will be many people who will be along soon to argue that I am wrong. To understand why they do this you must understand a little about how the human psychology works. People will tend to convince themselves that what they can afford or the most economically prudent option when it comes to a large purchase is the right one, but they'll do it for reasons other than cost. There is perceived shame in taking the 'money saving' option. These people therefore end up subconciously convincing themselves they choose a diesel for the power delivery not because they couldnt justify the cost of fuelling a V8. The mind is very powerful - the key here is subconcious. They dont make a concious decision to do this so they will never admit they've done it because they don't actually realise.

Sadly time is running out for those of us who like an engine we cant hear when sitting at the traffic lights, who enjoy chasing the redline and who dont like vibrating gearsticks. Dont argue, they all do it.

I'll probably end up buying a diesel at some point. I'd like to think that when I do, I'll be honest about why - saving money.

This whole post covers perception as well as reality. Most people THINK diesel is cheaper, so buy it without bothering to check, because most people put more thought into the kids £200 xmas present than a £15,000 car. This is how the 330i died - same car tax as the 330d, only 6mpg less combined, yet 272bhp of glorious straight six goodness. Pretty much the same fuel economy when you factor in the ever increasing gap between diesel and petrol pump prices. But no, diesel = cheap so nobody cared.
 
Depends on the car, for a daily driver used for commuting etc I actually seem to prefer diesels, for a fun car though and something to enjoy driving I think diesel is pointless and for me a petrol engine wins hands down, even if only for the sound!
 
For smaller cars I think a diesel can be quieter on the motorway (lower revs) but for big executive cars a big V8 will rumble along just the same.

Could it be a tax thing for some people as well? (thinking company car tax rather than ved)
 
I think it's important to remember the cost of fuel these days - in recent years it has rocketed, far out of proportion with salaries.

So although the cost difference has stayed much the same (what, 20% maybe?), that is becoming a larger ane larger part of peoples salaries. So people are much more willing o make the compromises associated with diesel cars. I'm not sure exactly what the average salary in the uk is, but 30mpg over 20k miles is a noticeable chunk of it
 
I just prefer decent turbo'd cars really, be it petrol or diesel.

My 4.0 TDi A8 I find a great all rounder for a diesel and fits the car very well. It sounds great and even at idle its quiter than my dads petrol s40. Sounds like a v8 as you would expect, but can sound "boomy" and certain revs.

Running costs are reasonable with 35mpg, which for me means its justified in my head as it then fits the mileage deal I have at work.
 
[TW]Fox;17721235 said:
Sadly time is running out for those of us who like an engine we cant hear when sitting at the traffic lights, who enjoy chasing the redline and who dont like vibrating gearsticks. Dont argue, they all do it.

I dont agree with that although I do with everything else, petrol engine technology is also being developed just as much as diesel has over the last few years, there are hybrids that are able to meet and exceed diesel economy however they wont obviously deliver the power in the same way but for people like me who cant stand the thought of driving a diesel its relieving thought. Its not just hybrids though, petrol cars will make sense more than a diesel in a low mileage city enviroment and modern petrol engines return much healthier figures than ten years ago
 
I agree with Fox, except that petrol engines aren't dying, they're just getting smaller and having FI fitted on them.

And despite not being keen on the company, hats off to BMW for their new F10 engines, even the petrol ones are very efficient. I reckon the 520d will still sell the best, though.
 
I dont agree with that although I do with everything else, petrol engine technology is also being developed just as much as diesel has over the last few years,

I agree but people dont buy it. I keep moaning about this but the latest 330i engine is stunning. Nearly 40mpg combined yet 272bhp. But so little people cared they dont even do it in Saloon or Estate anymore.

You could make a petrol engine that does 10000 mpg and still people would automatically buy a diesel.
 
The guys who say it's all about cost have nailed it on the head. I bought a diesel as at the time i was doing 60-70k miles a year in a company car but took the car payments instead. It didnt make sense then to buy a petrol. Why havent i changed? Just laziness on my part and also having a car sat on the drive that is paid for and effectively earning me a few hundred quid a month through company mileage.

When you get into those realms of mileage diesel is really the only choice (again it's about running costs). Having just sat back and worked out the cost of ownership of that car versus a petrol (when you factor in purchase, fuel and mileage claims through work - no other running costs) over my current 12k miles (6k personal, 6k business) per year the difference only works out to be £2k over 5.5yrs or £360 per year better off which is nothing really.

And yes, my gear stick shakes at traffic lights!

I'll be honest too, unless my next job involves a lot of travelling (20k+ miles per year), my next car will be a petrol.
 
[TW]Fox;17721388 said:
I agree but people dont buy it. I keep moaning about this but the latest 330i engine is stunning. Nearly 40mpg combined yet 272bhp. But so little people cared they dont even do it in Saloon or Estate anymore.

You could make a petrol engine that does 10000 mpg and still people would automatically buy a diesel.

Do they actually achieve that economy though? In my experience, it's much harder to get book figures from a petrol
 
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