Is F1 just an engine sport.

[andicole0]

All the talk about it being just the engine and having to level that out for 2021 I was thinking of Williams, Haas and Red Bull. Williams nowhere near Mercedes with the same engine, Haas struggling with a current Ferrari engine (and Ferrari design help I believe) then Red Bull with what only can be claimed to be a second tier engine. Torro Rosso and Renault themselves struggle with the same engine as Red Bull.
Looking forward to 2021 without Ferrari now
Andi.

 

[gord]

No. There's many other factors, but when you get a regulation change and a manufacturer throws $1billion at engine development and dominates for sequential seasons it makes it look as such. As you note, you've got the customer teams with the "same engines" not fighting at the front, which demonstrates that other factors besides engine play their part.

One question that does pique my interest based on the performance of customer engine teams. Does anyone have any information about how identical the supplied engines are? Sure, they supply the same metal, but something not discussed so often is the software/liquids that control/go in them.

Fact is we have RB outperforming the works team and they can be competitive at certain tracks against the higher powered Merc and Ferrari. It could be argued that RB and McLaren look good for next year because their engine inadequacies have forced them to create efficient downforce packages, but it's not like Merc and Ferrari are twiddling their thumbs waiting for everyone to catch up.

 

[steve45]

I think now more than any other time in F1 history its about the whole package and how its all optimised to work together rather than just the engine or just the chassis, what we see with RBR is an exception rather than the rule and works teams have a huge advantage as they always have and will have.
I think too much emphasis has been put on the engines and how much of an advantage they give, if this was truely the case everyone with a Merc engine would be at the front end, ferrari close up with renault/honda taking up the rear, but as this season especially has shown, this is not/no longer the case.

 

[reef]

Aside from Honda obviously, the engines aren't really much different these days. The only time the Renault engined cars lose out is in qualifying as they cant reliably run a 'Q3-mode' like the Ferraris and Mercedes engines, though this will apparently change in 2018. In the race things are much closer.

Redbull like to whinge about the engine still, but they were far off at the start of the year due to aero issues which they have now fixed. You only have to look how Toro Rosso have actually slipped backwards with the same engine as the season has gone on to see its still very aero dependent.

The biggest issue F1 has is needless changes which spreads out the field again. When you have stable regulations the teams generally close up and you get better racing. If the 2021 engine rules came in and Merc got a march on everyone again, you'd have all the same whinging and calls for change just like now.

 

[The_Abyss]

You know the field is levelled when the manufacturers start calling for change, as their marginal gains are ever increasingly small against an ever increasing R&D budget.

 

[ThestigGT999]

Proposed new Formula 1 engine rules backed by Ilmor and Cosworth

 

[SS-89]

Proposed new Formula 1 engine rules backed by Ilmor and Cosworth

Misleading as they also said:

However, both companies say they would need investment from an external backer before they could contemplate making an F1 engine, even under the proposed new rules.

So they aren't significantly cheaper to allow for independents to run without external funding.

 

[this_is_gav]

The Mercedes engine is still a distance ahead even in races as Monza graphically demonstrated. Teams with budgets as 'small' as Williams and Force India could never wish to trouble them, which is why Mercedes are reluctant to supply a team who they'd consider a threat.

For the record I think Force India have done a stunning job the last couple of years. Their budget is a good chunk down on Williams and yet they've been beating them fairly comfortably for most of that time - they've got well over double the points in 2017.

So they aren't significantly cheaper to allow for independents to run without external funding.

No, but then neither of them are multinational forces with huge turnovers anymore, unlike the manufacturers already in F1. They were always going to need investment. Even in the V8 era Cosworth needed assurances that a minimum of 3 teams would be paying them.

 

[413x]

Money and engine. Red Bull have lots of money but a poor (relative) engine.

All about money still imo.