Is it time yet?

Unseen

Unseen

Unseen

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Have things progressed much recently in CPU's? I'm still on a DDR3 setup from 2014 or 2015 and may buy some upgrades in the near future. I'm not having many problems per say in video games but everytime I read a thread about how to increase fps the first thing people talk about is 4 cores, Intel or a Windows Update decreasing speed in old Intel chips for security reasons or something another. This is mainly on the more modern games like AC Odyssey, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Final Fantasy XV and others. Town areas or areas with lots of NPC is the most common complaint and in all instances people say it's the 3 or 4 series CPU's that's the problem.

So price vs performance is it worth investing yet? I would like the best fps I can possibily achieve on both GPU and CPU heavy bound games but as seen in many threads in the past most say "not worth it, 4790k is still a strong chip, would be a waste of money considering you have to buy a new mobo, ram, cpu and possibly a cooler" How much gains can you achieve with the newer line of chips? When I bought the 1080TI to replace my GTX 980 for example the gains were incredible. Are the current CPU's way better now on modern and CPU bound games. Am I likely to see a big raise in fps?

This is my current spec by the way

Monitor - Asus Rog Swift PG278Q 144HZ @ 1440P
GPU - Gigabyte aorus GTX 1080 TI
CPU - Intel Core I7 4790K @ 4.4GHz Devil's Canyon Haswell
Motherboard - Gigabyte Z97X-SOC Force
RAM - 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 2133MHZ 16 GB (2x8)
Cooler - Asetek 570XL 240MM
Power Supply - EVGA SuperNova G2 1000W 80 Plus Gold

SSD - 250GB Samsung 840 Evo
SSD2 - 500GB Samsung 850 Evo
SSD3 - 1TB Samsung Evo 850 Evo

I could also do with a good airflow case as well as being as quiet as possible. The one I have at the moment is absolutely awful. I had to take the whole thing apart a year or so ago so it fills with dust every few weeks. The current one restricts airflow even though I have a liquid cooler and 6 fans (3 of them exhaust fans) so I took the side and top panel off. Should have just bought a case there and then, the dust that gets in is insane.

So what do people think? Is it time. and if it is could someone spec me a new system... or well the parts that need replacing / upgrading. As well as a case, that is top priority.
 
New CPU, RAM and motherboard. Maybe a m.2 as your boot drive.
Your 1080ti is perfect for 1440p at 144hz

So it depends if you want to stick with Intel and go the 9900k route or go with AMD
 
Never mind what other threads say, the question is are you currently experiencing any issues with any games? You say not - if that's the case then don't upgrade. You're unlikely to see huge improvements outside of a few niche games

I'd say wait until you have issues at which point the next gen Ryzen will almost certainly be available which gives more choice.
 
ExRayTed said:
The question is, are you currently experiencing any issues with any games?
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Not really, but then again I don't monitor everything. If I knew the things some do when it comes to bottlenecking and what not I probably would see the signs. Most of the threads I have read on the Steam Forums for the past 2 years always blame the ageing Intel chips for poor performance whenever someone complains about optimization, low fps with decent rigs, so I'm inclined to agree with them. Some of the games mentioned above are games I have suffered from inconsistent fps but because I have a G-Sync monitor or placebo I don't really notice it unless it stutters for a second, which it has done in Final Fantasy XV but those blamed memory leaks rather than the CPU (for the stutters) i do have the Share fps counter on almost all the time and I do suffer from fps drops in games, whether that's the CPU doing poorly I honestly have no idea. That's why I'm here to see what people think.
 
Install MSI after burner and get your GPU and CPU usage on screen as well as FPS. That will give you some idea of whats going on
 
Apone70 said:
Install MSI after burner and get your GPU and CPU usage on screen as well as FPS. That will give you some idea of whats going on
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I already have MSI Afterburner installed for the custom fan curve for the 1080TI. I could give it a shot but I have no idea what the signs are. i wasn't really here to fault find, I follow the herd, when it comes to PC stuff I knows bits and pieces but not a great deal, hence why I come to this very forum for advice.

As for the poster above my knowledge when it comes to hardware isn't great. Just because I say I'm not noticing many problems, doesn't mean there aren't better options out there :). My main point, although, I didn't make that clear in the original post was the question about price vs performance and how far Intel or even AMD has come in recent years in terms of performance gains from a 4790K to the newer chips.
 
you want to see if your GPU is hitting max usage and what your CPU usage is like when playing games. If your CPU isn't maxing out but your GPU is you should be ok.
 
Unseen said:
So price vs performance is it worth investing yet?

CPU - Intel Core I7 4790K @ 4.4GHz Devil's Canyon Haswell


I could also do with a good airflow case as well as being as quiet as possible.
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Definitely no when having that CPU.
That CPU is only one incremental architectural step behind Intel's Skylake rebrandings.
Intel's marketing may be in 9th gen, but architecturally all Intels are 6th gen.

Unless you want "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" choise.

Those Intel's Skylake rebrandings are overpriced for lack of proper advance in cores/performance per price.
While current Ryzens are clock speed handicapped by originally Samsung's phone/tablet CPU manufacturing node.
And for their arm, both legs and half the internal organs price, Intels won't stay in high end even one third of earlier decade's £300 top models.
9900K level performance likely becomes mainstream level at summer.

In CES AMD demoed Zen2 engineering sample matching 9900K's processing power at ~50W lower power consumption.
Also rumoured in December chiplet design got confirmed, with shown CPU package having empty spot the size of another 8 core "computing die".
AMD also hinted about pushing forward in cores/performance per money.
So 12 core/24 threads is likely to be new 2700X successor.


In case of cases it's always balancing.
If you want the highest airflow, nothing wins open mesh case.
But then again if any component farts even tiny bit, you're going to hear that noise unmuffled, because any noise leaks directly out.
 
Apone70 said:
you want to see if your GPU is hitting max usage and what your CPU usage is like when playing games. If your CPU isn't maxing out but your GPU is you should be ok.
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I have only managed to try Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Kingdom Come: Deliverance and Overwatch in the past day and Shadow of the Tomb Raider was 97% CPU and 99% GPU most of the time. Cores 1 to 8 90+, some of them hitting 100% at times in the villages (fps drops here). Kingdom Come: Deliverance was hammering CPU1 at 100% causing fps drops in the towns. Overwatch seems to be fine but isn't utilizing my cpu or gpu properly. Guessing that's because it's a cpu bound game with high fps?

EsaT said:
Definitely no when having that CPU.
That CPU is only one incremental architectural step behind Intel's Skylake rebrandings.
Intel's marketing may be in 9th gen, but architecturally all Intels are 6th gen.

Unless you want "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" choise.

Those Intel's Skylake rebrandings are overpriced for lack of proper advance in cores/performance per price.
While current Ryzens are clock speed handicapped by originally Samsung's phone/tablet CPU manufacturing node.
And for their arm, both legs and half the internal organs price, Intels won't stay in high end even one third of earlier decade's £300 top models.
9900K level performance likely becomes mainstream level at summer.

In CES AMD demoed Zen2 engineering sample matching 9900K's processing power at ~50W lower power consumption.
Also rumoured in December chiplet design got confirmed, with shown CPU package having empty spot the size of another 8 core "computing die".
AMD also hinted about pushing forward in cores/performance per money.
So 12 core/24 threads is likely to be new 2700X successor.


In case of cases it's always balancing.
If you want the highest airflow, nothing wins open mesh case.
But then again if any component farts even tiny bit, you're going to hear that noise unmuffled, because any noise leaks directly out.
Click to expand...

So how long should I wait before buying upgrades? Also on the case front I will take a closer look at both yours and the suggestion made from Apone. Are there any that are both quiet and have good airflow? Or is it a trade off, one or the other?
 
The case i mentioned can have a lot of fans, if they are all running at really low RPM then yeah you can have it quiet and with decent air flow.
Your cpu usage is really high so its very close to bottle necking your GPU
 
Apone70 said:
The case i mentioned can have a lot of fans, if they are all running at really low RPM then yeah you can have it quiet and with decent air flow.
Your cpu usage is really high so its very close to bottle necking your GPU
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Ha. I expected this to be the case. I think G-Sync helps me a bunch in some modern games because my fps is between 40 and 100. The areas with lots of NPC's or towns / cities is where I tend to feel the fps differences + the occasional 1 second stutters.

CPU bound games are a bit more problematic because the fps bounces around and that can be felt. If you're at 300+fps then drop to 160-200 when making quick turns it feels awful. Those games I uncap my frames with all syncs disabled, including G-Sync.

Bioshock Infintie with 4K DSR is a perfect example for older singleplayer games where I could be at a stable 144 fps then drop to 70 when zoomed in or looking at certain areas up close. Most of the time though I only notice fps drops when checking the fps counter, probably through the help of G-Sync as posted above.

I will probably take a look at some videos comparing the differences between 4790K and the I7 or I9 CPU's later on. I want to see how much of a performance gain I can achieve in CPU bound + modern games as those are the type I frequently play.

If I do upgrade I will probably stick with Intel and go with 32GB Ram this time around. Get a standard motherboard. The last time I opted for one with all the fancy features but I never SLI'd, I never overclocked etc so I didn't need half of the stuff the motherboard came with. Could also do with checking the differences between the latest I7 and the latest I9 CPU. I could even check OC for the bundle packages so I can get a binned pre-overclocked bundle if they have one. That's what I purchased the last time around.
 
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Went to check some Youtube videos and I saw between a 10 and 20 fps difference in GPU bound games when comparing the 4790K and the latest I7 9700K ar 1440p. None of the tests seem to show the areas most affected though in the towns, cities or areas packed with NPC's, those being the most obvious areas for concern with older CPU's. That is one of the most common complaints when users are having problems with fps dips, stutter and such with decent setups.

One or two of the videos also compared CPU bound games like Overwatch and CSGO where the differences are quite substantial. I think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade. The I7 and the I9 seem to perform similarly on games so I might get the I7 9700K, 32GB or higher? Mobo and a cooler would be needed. Any suggestions?
 
Unseen said:
So how long should I wait before buying upgrades? Also on the case front I will take a closer look at both yours and the suggestion made from Apone. Are there any that are both quiet and have good airflow? Or is it a trade off, one or the other?
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Would expect some information about Zen2 Ryzens in AMD's 50 year anniversary in start of May.
And full data of various models is likely in Computex.
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...o-launch-zen-2-possibly-navi-at-computex-2019
Question isn't really about CPUs, TSMC has likely been producing computing dies since last year and Zen2 EPYCs should be now shipping, but about when desktop CPUs are released in relation to latest motherboards.
New PCIe v4.0 chipset got delayed some.


Lian Li PC-O11 isn't really ideal air cooling case with lack of simple straightforward airflow path.
Like sideways position of intake fans, which don't blow air directly toward components needing that fresh air.
While there's plenty of holes for that air to get lost and leak out without ever getting to those parts.

Also those stamped meshes are at best very mediocre, blocking half the area of fan.
That means more turbulence noise, if fan actually tries to push air.
And because of that impedance aka airflow resistance also decreasing airflow, fans have to be running at higher speed/produce more pressure, or you need more fans to maintain airflow.
(compared to properly designed fan positions)

Once Lian Li actually used proper wire made finger guard for rear fan.
So can't understand why they changed to this craptacular stamped mesh, especially when there are less restricing mesh designs.


Unseen said:
One or two of the videos also compared CPU bound games like Overwatch and CSGO where the differences are quite substantial. I think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade.
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CSGO is pretty ancient game depending almost entirely on single thread performance.
And because of lack of proper architectural advance (only one incremental architectural step) you won't be getting any difference worth the price Intel charges for lack of future proofness and lack of upgrade path.
Only real reason why 3½ years old architecture "9th" gens don't work in motherboard's of 6th gen is Intel's greed.
https://www.techpowerup.com/250109/...0-ghz-overclock-on-a-z170-chipset-motherboard

Next gen consoles likely come with Zen2 based 8 core/16 thread CPU.
With coding for fixed hardware and lower amount of bloatware/overhead than in PCs, that's heck a lot of CPU power available for games.
If you're going to pay more than budget price, hardware should be proof against multiplatter games made for those.

As long time "PC Master Race" hobbyer wouldn't have though it possible for consoles to ever approach PC's CPU power.
But thanks to Intel's greed and Intel Cash Cow Race's willingness to pay lot for lack of real advance, that's now reality.


You could first check if there's something running on background, which could be response of some frame rate drops.
Process Explorer can include CPU history graph for the process and can be used to check after fps drop if CPU load was actually caused by the game.
Would be easy to have all kinds of junk installed in five years old PC.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer
(right click in bar above process liss to select CPU history as one column)
 
Would wait 3 months and go for zen 2. 9900k performance (or better) for way cheaper, possibly more cores too which s great for the long run
 
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