Is it worth getting a centre speaker?

MikeHunt79 · 2 Jan 2011 at 16:26

krisboats said:
30ft is huge! Even 15ft as a minimum would be pushing it. Most household lounges aren't 30ft wide to begin with.

but many cinema's are...

krisboats said:
As it stands, my own system has the front left and right speakers about 2 metres apart with a centre and it sounds great.

If you're happy with the way it sounds with a centre speaker by all means stick with it. I prefer not to use a centre speaker unless my front speakers are more than 30ft apart myself, as this minimizes lobing.

krisboats said:
Have a look through the gallery images, most HT setups have nowhere near 30ft and run a centre

I guess I'm in the minority then... Sometimes adding extra speakers can create more problems than it solves, so it's often a case of 'less is more'. If you do have a centre speaker, it's easy enough to mute it and see if you prefer things with or without it...

FWIW, I'd be tempted to blow £500 on a nice active sub as opposed to a centre speaker, this will put a much bigger grin on your face IMO...

james.miller · 2 Jan 2011 at 16:54

my fronts are 9ft apart and i still uses a center. but then i dont uses £1k's worth of active ATC's, i use pair of £100 missions. but there you go.

9designs2 · 2 Jan 2011 at 18:27

james.miller said:
my fronts are 9ft apart and i still uses a center. but then i dont uses £1k's worth of active ATC's, i use pair of £100 missions. but there you go.

Perhaps you should upgrade them then

krisboats · 2 Jan 2011 at 19:17

MikeHunt79 said:
but many cinema's are...

If you're happy with the way it sounds with a centre speaker by all means stick with it. I prefer not to use a centre speaker unless my front speakers are more than 30ft apart myself, as this minimizes lobing.

I guess I'm in the minority then... Sometimes adding extra speakers can create more problems than it solves, so it's often a case of 'less is more'. If you do have a centre speaker, it's easy enough to mute it and see if you prefer things with or without it...

Well THX recommend 45 degrees from central listening position and dolby have a calculator on their site that recommends less than 45 degrees from centre. DTS on the other hand are a bit more vague with this:

At 10 feet away from the screen thats less than 14 feet apart, half of what you're recommending. I'd rather go with several world class standards than someones personal opinion. No offence.

-Ad- · 2 Jan 2011 at 20:08

james.miller said:
my fronts are 9ft apart and i still uses a center. but then i dont uses £1k's worth of active ATC's, i use pair of £100 missions. but there you go.

Credit can help

james.miller · 3 Jan 2011 at 00:42

they dont need upgrading, but thanks for the advice.

kidloco · 3 Jan 2011 at 10:50

Each to their own I guess. My main speakers arnt a huge distance apart and I tested it for a long time before buying the centre speaker (my hi fi shop loaned me one for a week)

Even though the stereo speakers are better (GS1, center is from silver range as gold wouldnt fit where I wanted it to sit) the system as a whole sounds far better with the center in place.

ferret face · 3 Jan 2011 at 10:59

Cheers kidloco, thats about the distance mine would be.

One thing i have noticed with my stereo speakers is that sometimes in films the action parts, such as explosions etc are a lot louder than the speech and i have to grab for the remote to turn it down a little at night.

If i got a centre speaker could i up the loudness of the centre so that I wouldn't have to do this? So in effect turn down the explosions and up the talking parts?

cheers for all the input guys

kidloco · 3 Jan 2011 at 11:05

ferret face said:
Cheers kidloco, thats about the distance mine would be.

One thing i have noticed with my stereo speakers is that sometimes in films the action parts, such as explosions etc are a lot louder than the speech and i have to grab for the remote to turn it down a little at night.

If i got a centre speaker could i up the loudness of the centre so that I wouldn't have to do this? So in effect turn down the explosions and up the talking parts?

cheers for all the input guys

Yes, with a home cinema amp you just boost the centre channel by a db or 2.

If fact when I set mine up that exactly what I did. measured each channel with a sound metre from radio shack. got every one exactly level. then gave the centre a slight boost. Just my prefrence

ferret face · 3 Jan 2011 at 11:21

excellent, I'm sick of constantly turning the sound up and down on action films. I'm going to have a look in my local Richersounds this week and hopefully pick up an AV amp.

9designs2 · 3 Jan 2011 at 11:36

Kidloco, looks from the picture your screen is more forward than your speakers ? which would explain your findings. Speakers, need to forward of anything that is placed in between them. Otherwise the sound field will collapse due to reflections off the objects. Similar with the rack.

You paid more money for the better equipment and use HD sound formats to achieve these greater dynamics !!! Perhaps use a "Midnight" mode on the amp to flatten this down a bit ? .....

kidloco · 3 Jan 2011 at 11:38

9designs2 said:
Kidloco, looks from the picture your screen is more forward than your speakers ? which would explain your findings. Speakers, need to forward of anything that is placed in between them. Otherwise the sound field will collapse due to reflections off the objects. Similar with the rack.

You paid more money for the better equipment and use HD sound formats to achieve these greater dynamics !!! Perhaps use a "Midnight" mode on the amp to flatten this down a bit ? .....

Sorry , wrong. They are all pretty much exactly in a line, fronts, screen and centre. within 1-2 cm. I would add that im very happy with my AV setup now. Sure its not fantastic with music but ive decided I will have a seperate music system when funds and space allow.

9designs2 · 3 Jan 2011 at 11:50

1-2 cm is not enough, needs to be well forward. Plus a little toe could help..... Agree a separate music set-up is great way to good if possible.. Nice amp

kidloco · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:09

speakers are slightly toed in mate. Played around with that for a while as well. Cant really stick the speakers out any more without them looking odd and people tripping over them.

My old friend compromise comes into play again

tom_nieto · 3 Jan 2011 at 13:24

I certainly will not be trading in my stereo setup for a sub/sat system for movies (how this has been suggested in this thread I don't know!). I have experienced excellent results with my current setup, don't think I would benefit from a dedicated centre to direct voices as the soundstage i have is pretty decent and I certainly wouldn't want to shake the room any more with a sub. I used to have a 78c with my 783s and don't miss it one bit currently. If I ever get a projector and have to move the fronts even further apart I'll think about getting hold of one again, but the expense of a new av amp (3802 finally died) would probably halt those plans, as I wouldn't mind investigating mono-blocking my current fronts!

Get a demo by all means as not everyone's taste and setup is the same, but monies could be spent better elsewhere.

Demon · 3 Jan 2011 at 15:08

tom_nieto said:
I certainly will not be trading in my stereo setup for a sub/sat system for movies (how this has been suggested in this thread I don't know!). I have experienced excellent results with my current setup, don't think I would benefit from a dedicated centre to direct voices as the soundstage i have is pretty decent and I certainly wouldn't want to shake the room any more with a sub. I used to have a 78c with my 783s and don't miss it one bit currently. If I ever get a projector and have to move the fronts even further apart I'll think about getting hold of one again, but the expense of a new av amp (3802 finally died) would probably halt those plans, as I wouldn't mind investigating mono-blocking my current fronts!

Get a demo by all means as not everyone's taste and setup is the same, but monies could be spent better elsewhere.

When I suggested looking at a 5.1 sub/sat package, it was in response to the fact the setup is for his plasma and he said he spent 90% of the priority was movies..

Now when it comes to surround sound, you really do want rear speakers and a sub, or the experience is just not as intended (we are talking about modest budgets here).

I can't believe anyone interested primarily in movies would really want just a 2 speaker setup, no matter how esoteric the kit, it's just not going to do the whole 5.1 aspect is it?

So with the OP saying space was his limiting factor, and his usage, then a good/small 5.1 package such as Boston Acoustics XS 5.1 and a Yammy 667 would for example give him a superb surround sound experience, in a small space..

All I'm saying is, if he spends £500 on an AV Amp + Centre speaker, he's still missing rears and a sub, both vital IMO or you are missing out on a big chuck of the surround sound experience..

I guess, I'm looking at it pragmatically,
£600 on a reasonable stereo amp + stereo speakers will sound musically twice as good then £600 spent on an AV Amp + 5.1 speakers..
But
£600 on a reasonable AV Amp + 5.1 Speakers will sound twice as good for the whole movie experience as £600 spent on a stereo amp/speakers.

If you want your cake and eat it, you need to get your money out, or compromise according to your priorities..

That is all...

tom_nieto · 3 Jan 2011 at 15:41

Good points all round Demon. I was mostly trying to push the point that throwing money at a centre or surrounds might not solve the problem in hand. I'm biased towards stereo due to my circumstances but also firmly believe that a surround setup of similar price (in all my amp and speakers were £800 ish) would not give me the same performance for movies or music.

Individual circumstances must be thought about before mindlessly spending cash!

BF-Bert · 5 Jan 2011 at 20:23

kidloco said:
MONITOR AUDIO BRONZE BX CENTRE SPEAKER & ONKYO TXSR608 HOME CINEMA RECEIVER = £530 (slightly over I know, sorry)

When funds and space allow

Monitor Audio Bronze BXFX Rears
Bronze BXW10 Subwoofer

Not a great idea, unfortunately the BR and BX ranges sound significantly different and you want to keep all fronts as tonally matched as possible. The rears and sub would be fine tho.

Somnambulist · 5 Jan 2011 at 22:22

FWIW I've firmly decided after a couple of days to just go for some decent floorstanders with excellent stereo imaging, add a sub a little later, then once I move out add the matching center and rears. Offers more of an upgrade path since the other parts will come down in price over time as new series come out and a budget 5.1 kit will probably end up getting replaced entirely as they'll initially offer a good surround experience, but the actual fidelity will firmly be low-end, so you end up paying more. I'd have to pay for speaker stands as well for the left/right and the rears too, which adds further cost. L/R would be less than 6ft apart too so I don't see the point, especially if I get a decent receiver that does the Audyssesy stuff with dynamic EQ'ing when the volume is down and dynamic volume levelling so there's no massive difference between the loud and quiet parts.

I know people on AVForums have been grabbing the Linn Komponent 106 centre speaker though which is around £109 online where it was previously about £500 and buying 5 for a completely matched set (as a good centre speaker it's fine for all the other positions too) @ £525 which is a massive bargain. Still need a sub though.

rG-tom · 5 Jan 2011 at 23:31

I have a reasonable setup but nothing like 9designs2

At old place they were further apart, and I did toe them in but have no photos of that:

Mission m35i and the bigger of the two m3x centres, with devon avr-4306. Having the center makes a massive difference, with it in pure stereo it's no where near as clear in dialogue when compared with 5.1 due to the way the films are mixed.