Is now a good time to upgrade?

[h4rm0ny]

My current system? An FX-8370 Piledriver with 24GB of 1333MHz RAM. Don't laugh - it's seen me through most of my modest needs and is still going strong. But even I admit it's not cutting edge.

I'm currently looking at either a 2700X or a Threadripper. I don't game much. I do write software in several languages and do database work. So I run a few VMs and do a bit of compiling. Hence the 24GB (which is going to be very expensive to replace with DDR4 ). One of the big draws aside from faster memory and faster execution, is being able to have multiple PCIx4 SSDs. I can never, ever, get enough disk speed.

If I buy now am I shooting myself in the foot with anything new about to come out or big price changes?

 

[h4rm0ny]

I should have said, one of my goals here is to future-proof as much as possible. I know that's not truly possible but I'd like to avoid being on the wrong side of any large changes in technology. I've got... eight years out of my current system. Feels like it. That's partly what's pushing me to Threadripper as I think in the future more cores will be much better utilised than they are today.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Personally I would say now is not the best time, especially if you can perhaps wait a few months. 7nm Ryzen 2 is out next year with promise for some good gains over the current generation of Zen+, as well as the Intel 9 series chips coming soon.

But, that doesn't mean to say don't buy a 2700x or Threadripper, if you want something now, then go for it, either will be a huge upgrade over your current system, and you could even drop a Zen 2 chip in later next year if you find the performance increase to be worth it.

I've been with my current system for many years now, and I personally feel the wait for the next generation of CPU's is going to be worth it.

Threadripper is already 7nm, yes? So **IF** I went Threadripper it wouldn't be so bad to buy now but if I go Ryzen that's more reason to wait until next year - is that right?

I can definitely wait a bit. But also if I wait and then just buy what I would have anyway, I've lost out...

 

[h4rm0ny]

I think Threadripper would suit your application pretty well, so there's not really anything around the corner that is going to change things dramatically. Threadripper 2 is on 12nm 'Zen+', Zen2 on 7nm is next year, which should see a healthy IPC increase. From what I have seen it's likely Zen2 will also bring some 16 core CPUs.

I'd like to buy something before the end of the year, though it's not absolutely necessary. I think some of the new AMD chips are going to support PCI-Ev4 which is the main thing I'm aware of. To me that sounds like faster disks, but I don't know how long it would take for that to become an affordable thing.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I've priced up two systems. A Ryzen 7 2700 system coming to £823.97 and a TR 2950 system coming to £1,784.92. I mean, I could afford either but the latter makes me wince. Both with 32GB RAM. If stretch both builds out over the next eight years as this one has lasted, then that's £104 per year vs. £223 per year. So would I pay £110 a year to have an extra eight cores?



I like that the TR build has quad channel memory but I'm not sure how much difference it will make.

 

[h4rm0ny]

A terrible time.

My sig rig was around £900 with a 970 4 years ago. It cost me £200 extra to upgrade to a 1070.

I’m itching to upgrade but have no need.

If I built an equivalent rig today and went for a 2070 it would be about £1500 and that would mean sticking with the same amount of RAM which would be the first time in 20 years of building PCs that I would have ever done so.

That's GPU upgrades.. OP wants a fast CPU. There are areas that he will see a much more dramatic difference going from an 8350 to 2950 then you did going from 970 to 1070 for gaming.

Yes. I'm looking for more CPU, memory and maybe disk performance than GPU right now. Not that I wouldn't like to upgrade my RX-480 card as well, but I don't really game so it would just be my "buy the best" compulsion getting the best of me again. I'm considering seeing what Navi is like next year, though.

 

[h4rm0ny]

It is a good time if you want AMD, the 2nd Gen Ryzen CPUs came out in April 2018, and the B450 chipset motherboards came out at the end of July 2018 so its still fairly new tech. The Coffee lake intel 8th gen Intel stuff is a bit older and is due a refresh in October.

I normally go for Intel but decided on the Ryzen 5 2600 over the Core i5-8400 because it has 6 cores and 12 threads compared to the i5-8400 with 6 cores 6 threads, roughly the same price but the i5-8400 is a bit older.

If gaming is your primary concern the i5-8400 is considered a better choice but I'm not a heavy gamer and the Ryzen 5 2600 is no slouch in games anyway.

It's not really for gaming. And I have a definite preference for AMD where possible. I don't really like Intel much as a company whereas I have a certain affection for AMD.

A placeholder (together with some Gskill Ripjaws V 3200C14 or similar added).

The 1700 or 1700x was about £150 recently so look out for a bargain. Definitely get a good board if you want a high spec later upgrade.

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 1700 3.70GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £209.99
• 1 x Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero AMD X470 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £239.99

Total: £460.48 (includes shipping: £10.50)
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If you go with the former, you can drop a ryzen 2 or potentially ryzen 2+/3 into it in 1 yr 2 yr 3yrs time.
It'll give you a great amount of processing power, and indeed, be able to upgrade to even more, without costing as much as the latter system.

I'd edge towards it, but if not in a massive rush, I'd await ryzen 2, and the new mobo ranges with it, as they will likely have more lasting features than the current range.

I think you've all inclined me towards going with Ryzen. Either will be a big step up from what I have and £150 is cheap enough that I could pay it as a stop gap until Ryzen 2/3 later on. But still, Threadripper seems very tempting...

 

[h4rm0ny]

Is there a chance the Intel releases will push AMD prices down? (I suppose probably not, given "Intel" and "Competitive Pricing" go together like chocolate and chips).

EDIT: As much as anything it's the RAM prices that are killing me.

 

[h4rm0ny]

i am the same with ram, i dont run silly price ram. most if not all ddr4 will run at around 2800Mhz with no work.
i have 3 systems all with the cheap 8gb Crucial (2133Mhz) sticks in them, all ram as voltage up'ed by .05 all all stick run at 2800Mhz cl15 one system will do 3000Mhz with voltage up .10

if you dont do ram intensive task's you dont need silly priced ram

I don't intend to overclock the system at all, so I've no need of hyper-expensive RAM. I do usually buy Corsair just because I always have and it's always worked well.

I'm concerned about buying a 1st gen. motherboard if I go Threadripper. I read a few comments saying they might not be so good with 2nd gen TR onwards due to power demands.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I don't see now as a bad time if you prefer HEDT and slight future proofing, especially for what you are using it for. I've spec'd up the basics below using a PC parts comparison site showing you what you can get now, and has the ability to be upgraded, and meets your requirements.

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5GHz 12-Core Processor
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Taichi ATX TR4 Motherboard
Memory: Team - Vulcan 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
Memory: Team - Vulcan 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
Storage: ADATA - XPG SX8200 480GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Storage: ADATA - XPG SX8200 480GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Total: £1364.77

I've not added a GPU or case since you could happily use the ones you have got for now to save some funds, you would need a PSU and a good cooler though.

Obviously the benefit of the TR4 socket means that if the 12c/24t 1920X becomes a problem down the line, you'll have at least the Gen 3 TR CPU's that will be able to be dropped in, and possibly the gen 4's. I've also specified 64GB RAM from the start, but if you feel that is too much, then you can always swap the 4x 16GB for 4x 8GB modules. As per the spec, I have included 2x NVMe M.2 SSD's, these are ADATA rather than Samsung as the costs is lower, and the 4k reads/writes are actually better in some cases, which is where you'll benefit with running VM's, ideally you'd want to specify Intel 900P drives, but they are silly money.

I'm not sure if you waited 9 months for then next gen of Threadripper, or indeed 7-8 months for Ryzen 3XXX series you'd do much better, RAM prices might have come down a bit and the desktop parts might have more cores, but you'll still be stuck with 24 full speed PCIe lanes by the look of things.

Power demands will level off again with TDP's of around 180w again with 7nm Threadripper next year, making the demands of the 2970 and 2990's 250w seem high.

The sensible option is the 1920X at £370, and a decent board, with a view to changing come gen 3. Look at it from this point of view, spend £850+ on a second gen 2950X now, or save £500 almost and then get a 3rd gen CPU for about £500-600 with 24+ cores, making the overall spend the same acter selling the 1920X and no power worries on the board.

Aaaaand now I'm back to thinking I'll get Threadripper.

So the Ryzen 2700X build I'm looking at is a bit shy of £900. For £1400 I can get something twice as powerful. I've been thinking in terms of trying to put off upgrading as long as possible but maybe a CPU upgrade part way through would work. I've also been a victim of upselling myself. That build above comes in much below my own at £1750 and isn't much difference except for being a half-generation behind in the CPU and maybe a little lower in the memory.

I can drop it down to 32GB RAM for the time being (I'll still get 2x16GB though, I expect. Pricier but I can see myself adding to it in the future). I do like the double SSD, though. Visions of RAIDing them are swimming through my mind. Dropping the extra RAM will cover the PSU and the cooler....

These forums really need a table format but anyway, here's some rough estimates based on the idea that I can make the systems last different numbers of years depending on what I get. I've made this system last nearly 8yrs which is impressive in computer terms so I think I could conceivably do the same again given that in many ways computers are levelling off in terms of the computing power we actually need from them.

                               Cost        Expected Life Span (yrs)     Cost/yr        Cost of Future Replacement    Total Cost (8yrs)
TR 1920X                       £1,365.00          6                     £227.50               £1,000.00                  £1,615.00
Ryzen 2700X                      £850.00          4                     £212.50               £1,000.00                  £1,350.00
TR 1920X + Upgrade*            £1,865.00          8                     £233.13               £1,000.00                  £1,865.00
                 
 *Cost of Upgrade:    £500

So if I wanted to upgrade the 2700X in 4 years time and it was to something significantly different (which I think is likely as I see MOAR CORES to be the future), then I have to factor in the earlier buying of a replacement system. A 1920X I see lasting a couple of years moe before I was 'too far behind the curve' and a 1920X with a mid-life CPU upgrade as Journey suggests I should be able to make last even longer than that (and thus no premature cost in final upgrade). So basically, do I want to pay £300 more than the Ryzen for 150% (but which is only applicable in certain scenarios), or £500 more for something that starts at 150% the core power and likely rises even higher in 2-3 years time.​

​

 

[h4rm0ny]

Well after a LOT of dithering, I'm going to go with a Threadripper 1920 with a view to a mid-life CPU upgrade in a couple of years.

Thanks for the help!

 

[h4rm0ny]

lol I have 2 asus gtx 980 ti matrix in sli play at 1400p on asus swift at 144 fps so why whuld I need to speened £3000 for best 30% fps lol and prob buy new i9 9900k with new m/board lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

144fps is exactly what I'm trying to achieve in my Bash terminal. You've understood my needs exactly!

 

[h4rm0ny]

well spned £ 10.000 on a over priced tun of **** just 2 beat me on 1000 points lol all just get a 1080 ti for half the price for somthing thats at best %25 better lol

I'm sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.