Is 'Rembrandt' (6nm) for laptops / low power PCs only?

[g67575]

Could Rembrandt APUs be laptop / embedded parts only? Apparently, the new FP7 socket, rather than AM4 will be used.

The current FP6 socket is for mobile and embedded CPUs, according to this:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/packages/fp6

Does AMD even need to release Rembrandt on desktop PCs, with Zen 4 coming at the end of 2022, which is rumoured to have an iGPU?

In the meantime, AMD has let us know that Zen3 CPUs with 3D cache will be available on the AM4 socket, presumably they will be branded as the '6000' series. It's not clear to me if these CPUs will have anything in common with Rembrandt APUs...

I'm gonna guestimate that the performance improvement of the '6800X' vs the 5800X will be similar to the difference between the 5800X (32MB L3 cache) and the 5700G (16MB L3 cache), assuming that the next generation will double the amount of L3 cache. So, between 10-20% higher performance, in most tasks.

According to the Ignor's Lab website, these CPUs will work with existing AM4 motherboards, link here:
https://www.igorslab.de/en/go-amds-...s-that-b2-stepping-end-of-december-available/

 

[jigger]

They could either depends what AMD want.
AMD should have a nice array of mobile chips and the highend RDNA2 LPDDR5 versions could ask the M1X if it would like to step outside.

RDNA2 will be miles faster than the current Vega based graphics and that’s the one area AMD has taken its foot off the pedal IMO. I think Rembrandt will be all about graphics and making high performance mobile computing wireless. By wireless I mean 8 hours away from a 240v socket instead of the current hour if you’re lucky.

 

[LePhuronn]

Rembrandt has never been for desktop.

 

[PeegeeTips]

we can argue whether "rembrant" as a marketing name is a product that is laptop only, but there is little doubt that "rembrandt" as a chunk of silicon will be a desktop product (even if it has a different marketing name).

the FP7 mobile 'socket' may simply reflect the pin-out and tracing requirments of a DDR5/PCIE4 mobile APU, and its desktop counterpart will arrive likewise on AM5 (and not AM4 as has been the case with existing APU's).

 

[LePhuronn]

...but there is little doubt that "rembrandt" as a chunk of silicon will be a desktop product

Unless AMD don't produce Zen 4 APUs, the Zen 3+ tweaks going into Rembrandt won't hit desktop. Rembrandt never was for desktop.

There is an outside chance that the Zen 3+ tweaks could go into the 3D cache chiplets, but if that's the case then it's a "late" decision to do so and nobody was able to leak it.

 

[jigger]

Unless AMD don't produce Zen 4 APUs, the Zen 3+ tweaks going into Rembrandt won't hit desktop. Rembrandt never was for desktop.

There is an outside chance that the Zen 3+ tweaks could go into the 3D cache chiplets, but if that's the case then it's a "late" decision to do so and nobody was able to leak it.

Would be a huge jump in performance.

 

[PeegeeTips]

Unless AMD don't produce Zen 4 APUs, the Zen 3+ tweaks going into Rembrandt won't hit desktop. Rembrandt never was for desktop.

There is an outside chance that the Zen 3+ tweaks could go into the 3D cache chiplets, but if that's the case then it's a "late" decision to do so and nobody was able to leak it.

is there any evidence from AMD's past history to suggest that a mainstream mobile APU product would not eventually end up as a desktop APU product?

i can't see any, and I can't see anything to suggest rembrandt (as a piece of silicon), won't also have a life on AM5 as a desktop sku...

 

[LePhuronn]

and I can't see anything to suggest rembrandt (as a piece of silicon), won't also have a life on AM5 as a desktop sku

Apart from there not being any viable timeframe or product segmentation to release it to desktop. 3D cache refreshed Zen 3 coming Q1 next year, Zen 4 coming Q3/Q4 next year with a brand new socket and memory platform. So if Rembrandt were to exist on AM5 then it would need a new DDR5 memory controller and upgrade to PCIe 4 (at which point it's not Rembrandt). And then how do AMD segment it and price it? Zen 4 CPUs, Zen 4 APUs and Zen 3+ APUs all in the same desktop lineup?

I'm not sure what the confusion here is: The piece of silicon with the AMD project name Rembrandt is not a desktop product, it is a laptop product. If AMD experience delays bringing AM5 to market which results in some niche segment that can be served by Rembrandt, then yes AMD may slap it into an AM4 package. Rembrandt on AM5 would require the memory and PCIe controllers to be changed, at which point it's not Rembrandt.

Like I said, if AMD don't make Zen 4 desktop APUs then it's entirely possible the Zen 3+ cores and RDNA2 graphics are married with DDR5 and PCIe 4 controllers and brought to AM5, but that's not Rembrandt. Also like I said, it's not a zero chance that the Zen 3 refresh with stacked cache could see Zen 3+ cores in the chiplets, but that is also not Rembrandt.

Edit: the only situation I can see AMD bringing Rembrandt to desktop is as an AM4 "refresh" of the 5600G and 5700G. The 3D cache refreshed SKUs will open up quite a big performance gap to the desktop APUs, so the Zen3+ refinements in Rembrandt could get that performance parity back. Would work too if AMD do release the cache refreshed SKUs as a 6000 series, rather than 5000 XT. But realistically I don't see that happening since AMD need to get into major fight mode with laptops and get their supply up to competitive levels, meaning only parts that don't meet laptop criteria can be repurposed for AM4.

 

[PeegeeTips]

Rembrant is an APU product targetting the mainstream (laptop) segment, the existence of 3D vCache CPU products on AM4 and and Zen4 CPU products on AM5 is of little relevance, as they are performance (desktop) products.

As long as there is an AM5 platform to release it on then it will release.

Rembrandt is a DDR5 PCIe4 part - there is no issue here:
https://liliputing.com/2021/05/leak...brandt-chips-with-navi2-graphics-in-2022.html

 

[LePhuronn]

Well I've never seen that slide before The only one I've ever seen was incorrect and debunked, never knew this more official-looking one existed.

Looking at it, I'd still be surprised if Rembrandt hit the desktop because it's still Zen 3+, not Zen 4, and Zen 4 isn't due until Q3 2022. More importantly, DDR5 doesn't hit desktop until Zen 4. Unless, of course, AMD don't make Zen 4 APUs at all, and repackage Rembrandt for AM5 as Ryzen 6000 APUs.

We have seen that arch disparity before, but AMD intentionally skipped the 4000 moniker for desktop CPUs to end the confusion and bring the Ryzen name and Zen arch into alignment. I don't think they'd go back on it with the very next generation (same doesn't apply to the 5000 series mobile APUs though, that's still a hodge podge).

 

[PeegeeTips]

apologies, too many typos (now corrected) in my post above.