Is there a way to share the speakers between an AV amp and stereo amp?

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So I have a traditional 5.1 speaker setup (Mordaunt Short Premiere 5.1 package) plugged into an AV Amp (Yamaha RX-V461)... Which is fine, except I find its music playback (via Squeezebox 3) somewhat "weak" and "mushy". Even my son's cheap dedicated stereo in his bedroom I'd say sounds better!


So if I were to get a dedicated stereo amp (for music playback)? Is there a way I could then neatly and elegantly share say the 2.1 front speakers (left/right/woofer) via some method? eg: A switch?

Note: The woofer is connected via a coax to the AV amp, but it can be wired up via parallel speaker connection too I believe?
 
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a simple A-B switch box would do the job, you could also use the AV amp to feed the stereo amp for the front speakers. I'd skip the sub for music unless your into something very base heavy or your front speakers are tiny sats.
 
Does your AV amp have Pre outs ? ..... You need to say in more detail what kit you have to get some suggestions.... Budget?
 
what av amp is it?
what is the source material being played from?
have you cycled through all the amps surround profiles?

Amp - Yamaha RX-V461 Amp
Source - Generally a Squeezebox 3
Surround profiles? - Very much so! And even the dedicated Stereo mode feels lacking (+ no sub employed).
 
a simple A-B switch box would do the job, you could also use the AV amp to feed the stereo amp for the front speakers. I'd skip the sub for music unless your into something very base heavy or your front speakers are tiny sats.

Losing the woofer would be a shame... But I suspect your proposal is the cleanest/only method!

How much would we be talking for a reasonable stereo amp then? And a switch? Roughly?

I could plug the Squeezebox in it to using the dual phonos it has? And leave the optical into the AV amp, as I do have a couple of DTS albums...
 
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What sub is it?

I have mine connected to both the low level input phono for the .1 LFE channel for movies and also the high level input for when using direct mode for music.
 
1) Your Yamaha AV receiver is pre-full HDMI implementation, so the two HDMIs in are just video switching. The set requires a parallel digital audio cable or analogue cable for sound. I think the model dates from around 2007/2008 when HDMI and Blu-ray were just being established. The RX-V361 was I think the entry-level model. The 461 was the step up unit.

2) You haven't said the make and model of your speaker kit. What is it?

3) Does your son's Sony stereo sound better to you playing from the squeezebox or is it playing something else such as CDs or MP3 rips?

4) What file types are used for your rips played on the Squeezebox; Format, compression etc?

5) What is the make and model of the sub if different from the surround speakers?



Until we have answers to all the above then it's difficult to give absolute recommendations, but as some general observations these are some points to consider...

The limit of the sound performance in your main system might be the AV amp, but equally it could be the speakers. Putting a good stereo amp in to feed AV speakers as opposed to Hi-Fi speakers might not give you the jump in performance you're expecting. Things also start to get more complicated if the subwoofer doesn't support simultaneous connections from the LFE and High Level inputs. (Just having both sets of sockets doesn't automatically mean that it can handle both connections at the same time. There has to be a facility to mix the two inputs within the crossover.) This is why it's important to know all the kit model numbers. A speaker switch is one solution, but it is not without its own issues too.

Next, much depends too on the quality of the digital music playing via the Squeezebox. FLAC is reputed to work best. Is that what you're using? The power supply to the Squeezebox is also known to be a weak point. Have you upgraded yours?

Even with an upgraded PSU I think the analogue outputs are still a weak link. So if you buy a stereo amp then it will have to be one with a built-in DAC to make use of the SB digital output. Either that or buy a separate DAC. Whichever way you choose then the cost is going to be relatively high (entry-level Yamaha Hi-Fi amp with digital inputs: Yam AS301, roughly £250. You'll spend similar total on a basic stereo amp and basic outboard Hi-Fi grade DAC.) You'd still have to buy a speaker switch box and do something about the sub connections too.

If it was me then I'd be looking at replacing the 461 with a better quality used AV receiver or AV amp. This Yamaha RX-V1800 would have been perfect, and at it's final selling price of £150 then IMO a bit of a bargain too.

An AV receiver or AV amp might not be the final word in audio quality compared to a similarly priced Hi-Fi amp when new. But in the second-hand market these older receivers can and do cut it against the sub-£200 Hi-Fi amps that are probably going to be on your radar. In my experience a good £500 AV receiver coupled with very good speakers has the ability to easily show up the difference between music played from a Blu-ray player versus a dedicated CD player. You're also probably going to be able to distinguish between the system playing in stereo mode and in Source Direct mode too.

Changing the AV receiver means that most or possibly all the other issues go away too: There's no speaker switch and extra wiring to buy. There's no jiggling around with the sub connections swapping them over each time if it doesn't support dual simultaneous inputs. You will add compatibility for HD audio via fully operating HDMI sockets. You might even have some features such as cross- and up-conversion. One other big advantage is with the higher-grade AV Receivers you'll often find they have a set of full 5.1/7.1 pre-outs. This opens the door to proper integration of an AV Receiver with a Hi-Fi amp at some point in the future.
 
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What sub is it?

I have mine connected to both the low level input phono for the .1 LFE channel for movies and also the high level input for when using direct mode for music.

Interesting! If I understand you, this may be something I was thinking about!

My sub is the MS308 from the Mordaunt Short Premiere 5.1 package.

This has a dedicated coax feed/lead currently plugged into the back of my amp, but also has individual terminals to feed from the front speakers?

So you have both of these wired in on your woofer? How does it not get feeds from both and use both and get confused?

I was simply thinking about have a dedicated stereo amp with a speaker switch and using it to only feed the stereo audio to the woofer when the stereo amp was using the front speakers - If that makes sense.
 
1) Your Yamaha AV receiver is pre-full HDMI implementation, so the two HDMIs in are just video switching. The set requires a parallel digital audio cable or analogue cable for sound. I think the model dates from around 2007/2008 when HDMI and Blu-ray were just being established. The RX-V361 was I think the entry-level model. The 461 was the step up unit.

2) You haven't said the make and model of your speaker kit. What is it?

3) Does your son's Sony stereo sound better to you playing from the squeezebox or is it playing something else such as CDs or MP3 rips?

4) What file types are used for your rips played on the Squeezebox; Format, compression etc?

5) What is the make and model of the sub if different from the surround speakers?



Until we have answers to all the above then it's difficult to give absolute recommendations, but as some general observations these are some points to consider...

The limit of the sound performance in your main system might be the AV amp, but equally it could be the speakers. Putting a good stereo amp in to feed AV speakers as opposed to Hi-Fi speakers might not give you the jump in performance you're expecting. Things also start to get more complicated if the subwoofer doesn't support simultaneous connections from the LFE and High Level inputs. (Just having both sets of sockets doesn't automatically mean that it can handle both connections at the same time. There has to be a facility to mix the two inputs within the crossover.) This is why it's important to know all the kit model numbers. A speaker switch is one solution, but it is not without its own issues too.

Next, much depends too on the quality of the digital music playing via the Squeezebox. FLAC is reputed to work best. Is that what you're using? The power supply to the Squeezebox is also known to be a weak point. Have you upgraded yours?

Even with an upgraded PSU I think the analogue outputs are still a weak link. So if you buy a stereo amp then it will have to be one with a built-in DAC to make use of the SB digital output. Either that or buy a separate DAC. Whichever way you choose then the cost is going to be relatively high (entry-level Yamaha Hi-Fi amp with digital inputs: Yam AS301, roughly £250. You'll spend similar total on a basic stereo amp and basic outboard Hi-Fi grade DAC.) You'd still have to buy a speaker switch box and do something about the sub connections too.

If it was me then I'd be looking at replacing the 461 with a better quality used AV receiver or AV amp. This Yamaha RX-V1800 would have been perfect, and at it's final selling price of £150 then IMO a bit of a bargain too.

An AV receiver or AV amp might not be the final word in audio quality compared to a similarly priced Hi-Fi amp when new. But in the second-hand market these older receivers can and do cut it against the sub-£200 Hi-Fi amps that are probably going to be on your radar. In my experience a good £500 AV receiver coupled with very good speakers has the ability to easily show up the difference between music played from a Blu-ray player versus a dedicated CD player. You're also probably going to be able to distinguish between the system playing in stereo mode and in Source Direct mode too.

Changing the AV receiver means that most or possibly all the other issues go away too: There's no speaker switch and extra wiring to buy. There's no jiggling around with the sub connections swapping them over each time if it doesn't support dual simultaneous inputs. You will add compatibility for HD audio via fully operating HDMI sockets. You might even have some features such as cross- and up-conversion. One other big advantage is with the higher-grade AV Receivers you'll often find they have a set of full 5.1/7.1 pre-outs. This opens the door to proper integration of an AV Receiver with a Hi-Fi amp at some point in the future.

Apologies...

Speakers are Mordaunt Short Premiere 5.1 package with the front stereos upgraded from the small 302i's to the larger 902i's.

I play music from the Squeezebox 3, which is connected to the amp via an optical lead. Most music is FLAC.


RE: "The power supply to the Squeezebox is also known to be a weak point. Have you upgraded yours?" - Nope!

Regarding the simplest wiring solution, just replacing the AV amp, the Sony STRDN850 looked interesting to me (especially at £200'ish at the moment!), but I've had other people say it simply would not improve musical quality over my old Yamaha amp. *confused*

And then there's the other path of getting a dedicated stereo amp, putting the Squeezebox through that, and sharing the front speakers (& sub) via a speaker switch (to the front speakers)?! Obviously somewhat messy!
 
Interesting! If I understand you, this may be something I was thinking about!

My sub is the MS308 from the Mordaunt Short Premiere 5.1 package.

This has a dedicated coax feed/lead currently plugged into the back of my amp, but also has individual terminals to feed from the front speakers?

So you have both of these wired in on your woofer? How does it not get feeds from both and use both and get confused?

I was simply thinking about have a dedicated stereo amp with a speaker switch and using it to only feed the stereo audio to the woofer when the stereo amp was using the front speakers - If that makes sense.

Ignore what I said just had a look at the manual and advises not to do this with your sub.
 
Ignore what I said just had a look at the manual and advises not to do this with your sub.

? :(

Even if only one unit (feed) is in use at a time?


Shame you can't get a speaker switch which as well as doing the front stereo speakers does a anotehr coax too for the sub woofer... That would mean the woofer could be wires in tandem to the front speakers so it could only ever be fed via one source!
 
Apologies...

Speakers are Mordaunt Short Premiere 5.1 package with the front stereos upgraded from the small 302i's to the larger 902i's.

I play music from the Squeezebox 3, which is connected to the amp via an optical lead. Most music is FLAC.


RE: "The power supply to the Squeezebox is also known to be a weak point. Have you upgraded yours?" - Nope!

Regarding the simplest wiring solution, just replacing the AV amp, the Sony STRDN850 looked interesting to me (especially at £200'ish at the moment!), but I've had other people say it simply would not improve musical quality over my old Yamaha amp. *confused*

And then there's the other path of getting a dedicated stereo amp, putting the Squeezebox through that, and sharing the front speakers (& sub) via a speaker switch (to the front speakers)?! Obviously somewhat messy!
Thanks for the extra info on the gear.

Re: Sony 850 vs Yam 461
I would class the Sony as a price-fighter amp. That is to say that a lot of features are included to attract as broad a range of buyers as possible: 7.1, Wi-Fi built-in, networking, Bluetooth, NFC, MHL, USB, 3D, 4K upscaling, auto calibration, dual sub outs etc.... all for an original £299 and now £200 or so on clearance. While certain technologies are getting cheaper to produce, other costs have risen in the 8 or so years since the Yam 461 was launched. So somewhere along the way Sony and the other amp manufacturers have found ways to pay for all the extra gizmos and gadgets that newer amps have by cutting corners in other areas that are harder to see. The most notable area is amplification. Your Yam will use a fairly substantial transformer and some pretty large capacitors as to deliver its claimed 5 x 100W out of an 8-ish kilo box. Somehow the Sony manages to produce an extra 2 channels of power, and each channel is 50% more powerful, and there's all the other gizmos too, yet the weight is still around 8 kilos. Part of the reason is the industry making increasing use of switch mode power supplies which on paper look more powerful but in reality they lack the grunt to drive real loads.

So, FWIW I'd agree that the Sony is probably more of a sideways step compared to the Yamaha. I've found Sonys to have a hardness to the sound that can get a bit fatiguing after a while. That might not be the case with their higher end amps, but the price-fighter and midrange stuff always seemed a tad brittle to me.

I think if you want to focus on music performance then you need to go a couple of steps higher in the range. Start looking at amps that are or have been selling at £500-ish discounted, so they might have launched at £600-£700 rrp. I would consider Yamaha a better choice as a music AV receiver. RX-V771, 773 and the bigger RX-A models. There's also Marantz.
 
I think if you want to focus on music performance then you need to go a couple of steps higher in the range. Start looking at amps that are or have been selling at £500-ish discounted, so they might have launched at £600-£700 rrp. I would consider Yamaha a better choice as a music AV receiver. RX-V771, 773 and the bigger RX-A models. There's also Marantz.
Thanks for the advice...

The RX-V771/773 seem hard to come by... Anything else fall into this "better music" bracket?


BTW, the reason I mentioned the Sony 850 is because I believe it's basically the same running gear as the 1040/1050 which is support to be very good? eg:-
For stereo reproduction it performed flawlessly. The 1050 has a smooth clean and detailed sound quality that few AV receivers in this price range will be able to match. No matter what genre of music we threw at it, it always managed to impress us. With classical music it sounded airy and crisp. For rock, pop and hip hop it sounded punchy and powerful. The Sony 1050 proved to have a very dynamic quality making it great across a variety of genres.

Its power amplifier circuit board has been modified to match that found on our 2013 Product of the Year, the STR-DN1040, using a glass epoxy resin material to improve sound quality and stability.

Localised analogue voltage regulators have also been introduced – a design found in the high-end ES series – which Sony says will deliver an improvement in noise levels and bring more purity and definition to low-frequency sounds.

From our time with the DN850, we can say it is a successful move.

But are you basically saying that the AV amp really needs better circuitry etc hence aiming for one that was far more expensive initially?
 
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Used: any of the later Yamaha RX-V76X series or the RX-V8xx series or the RX-AXXXX series.

It's up to you, but IMO Sony wouldn't be my first choice for stereo audio quality. IMOALSO, I would be looking long term to the possibility of adding a Hi-Fi amp, so anything good but without pre-outs would be off my list straight away.
 
Used: any of the later Yamaha RX-V76X series or the RX-V8xx series or the RX-AXXXX series.

It's up to you, but IMO Sony wouldn't be my first choice for stereo audio quality. IMOALSO, I would be looking long term to the possibility of adding a Hi-Fi amp, so anything good but without pre-outs would be off my list straight away.

LOL! Just notice an important limitation! My cabinate (with door) is only about 34cm deep! The (newer) Yamaha amps seem to like being 37cm+
 
Well if you want the really good stuff then you won't let the cabinet depth stand in tour way.

Hello jigsaw :)
 
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