Is there any point??
- Thread starter J1234
- Start date
There is no point with any case.
It is a useless heat increasing load of junk, that takes days to remove.
AVOID.
Anyone says its good and you will get flamed by me/person attack. And I do not care about getting banned as its a holy crusade against that stuff.
It is a useless heat increasing load of junk, that takes days to remove.
AVOID.
Anyone says its good and you will get flamed by me/person attack. And I do not care about getting banned as its a holy crusade against that stuff.
Soldato
I'd use a Silentmaxx enclosure
Soldato
I've heard that it does
I personally don't have one as my Raptor is quiet at idle (great) and I don't mind the seek noise at all (in fact, I like to hear it seek so I know if something's reading the hard drive or not!
)
I personally don't have one as my Raptor is quiet at idle (great) and I don't mind the seek noise at all (in fact, I like to hear it seek so I know if something's reading the hard drive or not!
)
with the enclosure it has to go in a 5.25" bay and I want to keep my raptor in the 3.5" because I have a nice big fan infront of it keeping it cool, ill scrap that idea then!
Soldato
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
- Posts
- 3,739
I was quite shocked when I first heard my Raptor so I'm thinking of one of those enclosures myself. 
For my case(s) I went for a cheaper option than the Akasa mats.
I knew I needed something to mass-load the panels to reduce low-frequency hum; so I used some 3mm bitumen sheet.
It's the stuff Wickes sell as roofing underlay (not the gravel coated stuff!!!) but the 2 layer system – it’s just a rubbery sheet that has a sticky layer on one side. I happened to have some primer to go with it, so I just stuck it to all the flat panels.
A heat gun helps to mold it the panels.
The case now weighs about three times what it did and the panel vibration is non-existent.
Then I added some 10mm felt mat, as used in car sound absorption, this took the edge of the fan noise.
A Zalman CNPS7000B and a Enermax Noisetaker are of course far better than the stock stuff.
I think any future improvements would come from sealing up all the non-venting holes on the case, and adding a baffle to the PSU fan.
It’s a myth that doing this increases the temperature of the PC, as you are not actually changing the existing airflow.
I knew I needed something to mass-load the panels to reduce low-frequency hum; so I used some 3mm bitumen sheet.
It's the stuff Wickes sell as roofing underlay (not the gravel coated stuff!!!) but the 2 layer system – it’s just a rubbery sheet that has a sticky layer on one side. I happened to have some primer to go with it, so I just stuck it to all the flat panels.
A heat gun helps to mold it the panels.
The case now weighs about three times what it did and the panel vibration is non-existent.
Then I added some 10mm felt mat, as used in car sound absorption, this took the edge of the fan noise.
A Zalman CNPS7000B and a Enermax Noisetaker are of course far better than the stock stuff.
I think any future improvements would come from sealing up all the non-venting holes on the case, and adding a baffle to the PSU fan.
It’s a myth that doing this increases the temperature of the PC, as you are not actually changing the existing airflow.
No it isnt a myth as I have seen the effects on several cases with and without, it adds to the thickness of pannels stopping the heat getting out that way, airflow is not everything to cooling.
You can silence a PC by other ways than acoustic padding, and you can cure resonation either at the source or by simple mods using blue tac or elastic.
Your method may have less of any effect on temperatures than acoustic padding products, but having it on the cases will only ever increase temperatures, thicker pannels with insulation basically will always increase the temperature.
Also remember that motherboard temperature readings can be 100deg off sometimes, but thats another matter. (Just booted up a p2 with a temperature in the case of 139deg c!)
You can silence a PC by other ways than acoustic padding, and you can cure resonation either at the source or by simple mods using blue tac or elastic.
Your method may have less of any effect on temperatures than acoustic padding products, but having it on the cases will only ever increase temperatures, thicker pannels with insulation basically will always increase the temperature.
Also remember that motherboard temperature readings can be 100deg off sometimes, but thats another matter. (Just booted up a p2 with a temperature in the case of 139deg c!)
Soldato
I used some on my eclipse to stop the side panels resonating and it did the job. My temps stayed exactly the same as i predicted they would due to the air not staying in the case long enough to heat up. Saying that i wouldn't recommend it and i only used it because i got it very cheap. The silentmax enclosure is also a good product, it made an audible difference to the noise of my Seagate but didn't quite silence it. When i put the enclosure on the paxmat on the bottom of my case it was totally silent, no seek noise could be heard at all.
Mark
Mark
There are many other ways to reduce the noise before you start using that foam stuff. Appart from getting quieter components which can cost a bit there are some very cheap mods are aimed at reducing vibration. It's the vibrations which travel from the components to the case that cause a lot of the noise. I think that the acoustic absorbtion mats are aimed at absorbing the 'free flying' noise which is produced by the components inside the case and not really the vibration of the case. Vibrations will produce more noise in cases which have thin walls, have large uninterrupted suface area, have slack between the panels.
The things that I will suggest that you do are:
- make sure all screws are tightened and there are no loose bits
- mount the case fans on the rubber fan mounts
- remove fan grills, fan filters can reduce noise but the cooling is not as good and instead of running the fan at 7 volts you might need to increase it to 12v to get same air flow.
- soft mount the hard drives on elastics or in other custom way
- use rubber seals between side panels and rest of case
- where possible use thick foam, rubber or cork and tightly fit it between the middle of the side panel and mobo tray. Only a small piece is needed, it converts your side panel from a Rolf Harris' wobble board into a sturdy side panel.
The things that I will suggest that you do are:
- make sure all screws are tightened and there are no loose bits
- mount the case fans on the rubber fan mounts
- remove fan grills, fan filters can reduce noise but the cooling is not as good and instead of running the fan at 7 volts you might need to increase it to 12v to get same air flow.
- soft mount the hard drives on elastics or in other custom way
- use rubber seals between side panels and rest of case
- where possible use thick foam, rubber or cork and tightly fit it between the middle of the side panel and mobo tray. Only a small piece is needed, it converts your side panel from a Rolf Harris' wobble board into a sturdy side panel.
I still reckon the possibility of a heat increase is small enough to give it myth status, certainly my temps were within +/_ 1 degree C after the mod
Assuming ambient temp of 20deg. The case is good conductor with large surface area, therefore the case temperature is going to be 20deg also.
Air enters case (at 20deg), hits case wall, but no heat gradient so no temperature change.
Air mixes with case ambient, air is now 22deg
Air hits CPU heat sink, is heated to 34deg,
Air gets sucked into PSU right next to it, gets heated to 36deg
Air is blown out of case.
At no significant point is air (at above 20deg) in contact with the case long enough for the case to act as a heat sink.
I suspect the “egg box” type foam products may generate enough turbulence to disrupt the air flow and would add say 1deg max ?
Assuming ambient temp of 20deg. The case is good conductor with large surface area, therefore the case temperature is going to be 20deg also.
Air enters case (at 20deg), hits case wall, but no heat gradient so no temperature change.
Air mixes with case ambient, air is now 22deg
Air hits CPU heat sink, is heated to 34deg,
Air gets sucked into PSU right next to it, gets heated to 36deg
Air is blown out of case.
At no significant point is air (at above 20deg) in contact with the case long enough for the case to act as a heat sink.
I suspect the “egg box” type foam products may generate enough turbulence to disrupt the air flow and would add say 1deg max ?
I used a Spinpoint, so I haven’t got any hard drive noise to speak of; so the fans were relatively the loudest thing in there.
I wouldn’t say the overall noise was reduced to “err, is it on?” levels, but the “tone” of the fans was dropped quite a bit, which makes it easier to live with.
I reckon Day03 rubber seals point would be great, and would love to see a manufactures’ case designed to use rubber compression joints on all the panels. I was kinda hoping a move to BTX would let them rethink case design from an acoustic viewpoint
Heh… they make a big deal about electrically grounding all metal parts, and testing them for RF leakage - then they sell you a side panel with a window in it…
I agree that there is “vibration” noise and “airborne” noise. Technically the foam product should do a better job than my wad of felt, but with so many holes in the average case a proper solution is a bit hamstrung.
I’d like to see all fans moved to a central point, and air ducted to where required.
The use of noise absorbent ducting material could help dampen the fan noise before it even left the case (like a car exhaust)
Hanging fans on the periphery of a case only highlights the noise reflected off the fan blades, and in those locations there is no way to minimise it.
On a modern car panel, they only use a tiny piece of shock absorbent rubber sheet to dampen it. I’d guess they’d calculate its resonant frequency and then use the lightest piece possible to fix it. So, agreed, I didn’t really have to coat the whole case!
I wouldn’t say the overall noise was reduced to “err, is it on?” levels, but the “tone” of the fans was dropped quite a bit, which makes it easier to live with.
I reckon Day03 rubber seals point would be great, and would love to see a manufactures’ case designed to use rubber compression joints on all the panels. I was kinda hoping a move to BTX would let them rethink case design from an acoustic viewpoint
Heh… they make a big deal about electrically grounding all metal parts, and testing them for RF leakage - then they sell you a side panel with a window in it…
I agree that there is “vibration” noise and “airborne” noise. Technically the foam product should do a better job than my wad of felt, but with so many holes in the average case a proper solution is a bit hamstrung.
I’d like to see all fans moved to a central point, and air ducted to where required.
The use of noise absorbent ducting material could help dampen the fan noise before it even left the case (like a car exhaust)
Hanging fans on the periphery of a case only highlights the noise reflected off the fan blades, and in those locations there is no way to minimise it.
On a modern car panel, they only use a tiny piece of shock absorbent rubber sheet to dampen it. I’d guess they’d calculate its resonant frequency and then use the lightest piece possible to fix it. So, agreed, I didn’t really have to coat the whole case!
bitslice said:
Your asuming a high CFM case there, if you drop it down to a case that does most of its cooling passively or a HTPC rig which just vents the hot air then the acoustic padding increases the temperature by 4deg+ usually.
It is no myth as I have personally had it happen to me, and I am not one to beleive anything I read if it goes against what I have experienced.
Most dramatic increase I have seen is +6 at idle, which is not the +20 horror stories you may hear but it is an increase, and if your rig is already in the high 50's then this can be a really bad increase.
Soldato
Yewen said:
Agreed! Horrible horrible stuff!
When I was using it in a case with 3*80mm fans all on 7v the temps rose by 10c!
...But mine is not a high CFM rig, the 2 fans are just ticking over ?
The case at idle was still at 35 deg (+/- 1 deg) before the mod
AIDA32:
Motherboard 35 deg
CPU 55 deg
GPU 50 deg
-----------------------------
CPU fan 1436 rpm
PSU fan 1907 rpm
Agreed, a passively cooled rig is a different situation, but I’d hazard that airflow is a consideration in a passive design, and if the case “insulation” becomes a factor, then the airflow is too low.
If air is hanging about in a case long enough to transfer some of its heat to the chassis, then convection is taking place. That then must be disrupting the clean flow line from front to back, and a turbulent air flow is less efficient at cooling.
heh - I’d guess some proper readings from each point in the case would be handy; this is a bit too subjective to be useful. - I’ll have to see what’s available at work.
The case at idle was still at 35 deg (+/- 1 deg) before the mod
AIDA32:
Motherboard 35 deg
CPU 55 deg
GPU 50 deg
-----------------------------
CPU fan 1436 rpm
PSU fan 1907 rpm
Agreed, a passively cooled rig is a different situation, but I’d hazard that airflow is a consideration in a passive design, and if the case “insulation” becomes a factor, then the airflow is too low.
If air is hanging about in a case long enough to transfer some of its heat to the chassis, then convection is taking place. That then must be disrupting the clean flow line from front to back, and a turbulent air flow is less efficient at cooling.
heh - I’d guess some proper readings from each point in the case would be handy; this is a bit too subjective to be useful.
- I’ll have to see what’s available at work.Try padding a Lian Li v1000+ and you would have some issues cropping up if you totally padded it.
Also, you need to take the temps with something other than you motherboard, my K8N Pro Sli could not tell which side of 100 my processor is on.
The TR3a I have is not much better, but it is acurate to within 5 deg, so can show a 1 deg increase.
I have about 5cfm going through my case, and its fine. And a HTPC is designed to be quiet usually, with little airflow so needing more airflow, thus more fan noise is negating the point in the padding.
It does not make any audable difference to a quiet rig I have found, and it has always added to the temperature. My findings and most other peoples, although most of my experience is on ATCs 201 cases and a Antec 1650, it gives a good enough grounding with other peoples comments to say its a waste of time.
You may be the one rig in a thousand that it actually works for, as I know they exist, but for the mainstream the kits are a expensive way to make the pitch of the noise your PC makes different while heating it up.
Also, you need to take the temps with something other than you motherboard, my K8N Pro Sli could not tell which side of 100 my processor is on.
The TR3a I have is not much better, but it is acurate to within 5 deg, so can show a 1 deg increase.
I have about 5cfm going through my case, and its fine. And a HTPC is designed to be quiet usually, with little airflow so needing more airflow, thus more fan noise is negating the point in the padding.
It does not make any audable difference to a quiet rig I have found, and it has always added to the temperature. My findings and most other peoples, although most of my experience is on ATCs 201 cases and a Antec 1650, it gives a good enough grounding with other peoples comments to say its a waste of time.
You may be the one rig in a thousand that it actually works for, as I know they exist, but for the mainstream the kits are a expensive way to make the pitch of the noise your PC makes different while heating it up.
Agreed, more airflow = more noise, so negating the sound absorption. But that’s not quite the point I’m making. I think that it’s not correct to cool a case if random convection is allowed to occur, as heat will end up all over the place, and the air feed to the CPU fan would be hotter than optimal.
There must be a defined flow across the heat producing components, and to do that requires a >minimum< airflow through the case.
Yes I can bolt on a huge heatsink, turn off all the fans and it will work fine, but modern cases are not designed for convection cooling, they are designed for forced air cooling.
(otherwise the vent holes would be top and bottom, not front and back)
All my fans are on slowest speed, and the temperatures are still OK, therefore the airflow in my case is above the minimum for correct operation.
If my case had relied on air-to-case heat conduction to achieve 35deg, my side panel would have been a lot warmer than ambient. But as air flow is OK, it’s the same as ambient. Therefore slapping tar on it has no heat related effect
If air-to-case heat conduction is truly a factor then there would be greater benefit in cutting a big hole at the top to let all the hot air out !
The only things that get hot in a case are the CPU & PSU, but any hot air in that location is 3” away from being blown outside the case anyway.
(my GPU has it’s own vent)
I think if your cases get hot after adding insulation, then they do really get hot.
I disagree that the root cause of this increase is the perceived reduction in case conduction. Rather I think it is a problem with a change in air flow pattern caused by the padding, and not helped by current case design that is a bit poor for low flow rate cooling
Re: the motherboard temp gauges.
Yes they not to be relied on, and I expect my recorded 35deg may be really say 37deg, ...that doesn’t matter, I was looking for a temperature >change<. But there wasn’t one.
The gauge has read the same value for months.
I’m not supporting Akasa stuff btw; as my alternative mod cost me nothing, I only posted to show people a cheaper way of doing it.
There must be a defined flow across the heat producing components, and to do that requires a >minimum< airflow through the case.
Yes I can bolt on a huge heatsink, turn off all the fans and it will work fine, but modern cases are not designed for convection cooling, they are designed for forced air cooling.
(otherwise the vent holes would be top and bottom, not front and back)
All my fans are on slowest speed, and the temperatures are still OK, therefore the airflow in my case is above the minimum for correct operation.
If my case had relied on air-to-case heat conduction to achieve 35deg, my side panel would have been a lot warmer than ambient. But as air flow is OK, it’s the same as ambient. Therefore slapping tar on it has no heat related effect
If air-to-case heat conduction is truly a factor then there would be greater benefit in cutting a big hole at the top to let all the hot air out !
The only things that get hot in a case are the CPU & PSU, but any hot air in that location is 3” away from being blown outside the case anyway.
(my GPU has it’s own vent)
I think if your cases get hot after adding insulation, then they do really get hot.
I disagree that the root cause of this increase is the perceived reduction in case conduction. Rather I think it is a problem with a change in air flow pattern caused by the padding, and not helped by current case design that is a bit poor for low flow rate cooling
Re: the motherboard temp gauges.
Yes they not to be relied on, and I expect my recorded 35deg may be really say 37deg, ...that doesn’t matter, I was looking for a temperature >change<. But there wasn’t one.
The gauge has read the same value for months.
I’m not supporting Akasa stuff btw; as my alternative mod cost me nothing, I only posted to show people a cheaper way of doing it.