Is there anything wrong with Arsenal fielding a team with no Englishmen?

Mad old tory

Mad old tory

Mad old tory

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Alan Pardew has criticised Arsene Wenger for not fielding any Englishmen in our team against Real and to be honest I think he may have a point, in that at several times this season the team has been full of foreigners. On the other hand, when they are fit and on form, Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell are two of the most important players at the club, possibly THE most important behind Henry.

It's a shame we've had some talented English youngsters that haven't quite been able to make it for whatever reason ie Bentley and Pennant, but by signing Walcott and other players coming through like Gilbert, so the future looks good in terms of English players at the club.

Anybody else think it's important that we keep a substantial English contingent at the club, or does it simply matter that we have the best possible players available?

Pardew Story
 
No problem here. After all Dial Square (the first Arsenal name) was formed by a load of Scottish men.

I've said it before that I'd rather have a player of Cesc quality over an Englishman like Hillier who is only there because of his nationality. Look at all these 'great' English players who have left Arsenal and have set the world afire, Pennant (in trouble AGAIN), Upson etc. And look at how much good english players cost, SWP, and even Walcott and then compare them to other nationalities, they are far cheaper.

I'd rather be in our position than in Brum or WBA fielding Englishmen.
 
Because of the onus on teams to have English players in their side it is very difficult to sign the top English players without splashing cash that Arsenal don't have.

I don't see much wrong with it. I'm sure most Arsenal fans will feel the same, as long as the club is ultimately successful.
 
Oh don't get me wrong, if it's a choice between success and a team of Englishmen it's success everytime. Very good point about English players costing more though, I guess it would be nice if we could have more a balance between foreign players and Englishmen. In future years that could well happen with the likes of Gilbert and Walcott likely to become first team players alongside Ash.
 
I'm just remembering the outrage that was poured on Chelsea when we fielded a team without an English player.
That was only a couple of years ago - have opionions changed so much, or is it acceptance that to compete at the top you just have to bring on the best, no matter where they come from?
For all the (english) talent that West Ham have uncovered, they have lived precariously in the top flight for some years, have gone down (and arguably come up stronger) but have never been (consistantly)better than a mid table team with a good cup run here and there - oddly like Chelsea in that respect.
You could also say that having sold on the talent they have produced has kept the club alive/afloat - I'm not an expert, but there have been rumours of the financial viability of West Ham (in common with many clubs) and the dealings of it's chairman.....
 
I think it's partly the way Arsenal work that ends us up with foriegners instead of English kids too. Wenger's system generally relies on watching the French/Dutch/German leagues, and mid-table Spanish/Italian teams for young talent, rather than scouring the lower leagues in England, because he has plenty of contacts there from managing and playing previous to us. Thus we're more likely to end up with talented young French or Spanish players as we do now. That, and as said, most good young English players end up getting over-hyped by the press and thus over-valued.

Also, I'd say Pennant (and possibly Upson at a stretch) is really the only English player we've let go that was probably good enough for us, and he's hardly the model of a professional, competent footballer most of the time is he.
 
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I would prefer us to have more Englishmen in our team, but as long as the players we have are the best men for the job, I'm fairly happy.

The only English player that we've missed lately is Matthew Upson in my opinion, Pennant had too many other distractions and the others weren't up to the task.
 
I believe Arsenal ruined Pennant's career, and i think the same will happen to Walcott, albeit he seems a bit more down to earth.

Pennant is from my home town in Nottingham and he has a chip on his shoulder. When he was playing for Notts County he loved it, he was the best player in the team and he was playing very well. His contract was still verging on YTS - then Arsenal came in.

Arsenal bought him, and I'm sure Notts County were grateful of the transfer money, but they put Pennant on a massive salary to start off with. This went straight to Pennants head (who was only 15 /16 at the time) and he was the most expensive teenager in the world, more than the Brazilian chubber Ronaldo. Obviously since then things didn't work out for him at Arsenal and he was put on loan (and since bought) to Birmingham. Thankfully he appears to be turning the corner, putting his short term prision sentence for being caught drink driving (twice) behind him (which was an absolute disgrace btw - he should still be behind bars IMO) and is playing well again for Birmingham.

Back to the OP, I think that it is wrong to have no Englishmen in your team. I think the influx of Foreign managers in the top flight of our game has affected us greatly. Take Arsene Wenger for instance, obviously he is French, and was brought up in the French leagues and probably managed some French teams. How many African / French players has he bought. Probably a full 11... Henry, Viera, Toure, Eboue, Aba(new lanky player signed recently), Lauren and Pires off the top of my head. Foreign managers do not know the lower leagues of English football, so buy what players they do know.

The problem is, how do we stop this? Do we set a minimum amount of players in the team selected per game? If so, how many, and when do we annouce this? Think of Bolton, they have hardly any money but have a lot of foreign players, it would take years to earn the money to enable them to buy players. The only way to earn money is to be successful and get in to Europe. To get in to Europe you need good players and a good team, to get a good team you need money. English players are more expensive, so it's cache 22.

Do we set a limit on the amount of foreign managers in the 92 top flight clubs?

In my personal opinion this should have been spotted a long while ago by the FA and it has spiralled out of control. My hat goes off to Martin Jol and his staff for signing young British talent and making a successful squad out of them even though he is a foreign manager himself.
 
I think London ruined Pennant personally, rather than the club, but I agree with the statement otherwise. He was still a teenager, and he was pulled away to such a big, unknown city, given a hell of a lot of money, and expected to knw what to do with himself. As anybody else his age would normally do, he lived it up, but to his own professional expense. If Arsenal had been a team in any other, smaller city in the country, I don't think Pennant would have had so many problems, but London was far too full of distractions and adventure for him to stay focused.
 
Mad old tory said:
Alan Pardew has criticised Arsene Wenger for not fielding any Englishmen in our team against Real and to be honest I think he may have a point, in that at several times this season the team has been full of foreigners. On the other hand, when they are fit and on form, Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell are two of the most important players at the club, possibly THE most important behind Henry.

It's a shame we've had some talented English youngsters that haven't quite been able to make it for whatever reason ie Bentley and Pennant, but by signing Walcott and other players coming through like Gilbert, so the future looks good in terms of English players at the club.

Anybody else think it's important that we keep a substantial English contingent at the club, or does it simply matter that we have the best possible players available?

Pardew Story
Click to expand...

Whilst I feel quite strogly that we should have some englishmen in our team you have to appreciate that football is a global game and you can't help injuries. As already mentioned English players cost too much and to be honest what English players are going to walk into the Arsenal squad? Gerrard well thats gonna be silly money in a transfer, Beckham, well we'd need to re finance Asburton Grove to finance his wages and Manure are never gonna let Wayne Rooney down, to be honest there isn't a lot out there thats English that is going to do a better job than our current crop. As Arsene says he looks at the player not the passport.

Where this can change is in development of players, we have a number of quality youth players, I've seen Gilbert a few times and rate him highly, have also heard good things about a few others. Bentley's attitude let him and we all know about Pennant. Unfortuneatly Foreign youth players just don't seem to get stuck in the lets get wated and go to nightclub and fight type thing until that kind of mentality changes to some extent there ain't much that gonna change.
 
Well as long as the Champions League doesn't go back to the 3 player foreigner rule, they're fine. Arsenal do have English players, they're just both injured at the minute :p plus Theo Walcott will be breaking into the team in the near future which should be exciting to watch.

I don't see anything wrong with it to be honest, and foreign players are cheaper and there's more choice as well.

Deary me, I still have nightmares about the 3 foreigner rule, never being able to play our first team :eek:
 
Tony Soprano said:
Well as long as the Champions League doesn't go back to the 3 player foreigner rule, they're fine. Arsenal do have English players, they're just both injured at the minute :p plus Theo Walcott will be breaking into the team in the near future which should be exciting to watch.

I don't see anything wrong with it to be honest, and foreign players are cheaper and there's more choice as well.

Deary me, I still have nightmares about the 3 foreigner rule, never being able to play our first team :eek:
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pretty much my thoughts on it too. looking forward to walcott coming thru, hope he doesnt go down the line of Jeffers and the likes.

3 player rule just ruined a good game of champ man back in the day :eek:
 
Pennant ruined Pennant. The lad could hardly read, he's not exactly a bright spark as his career has proved, thought he'd made it before he had, the stories you would hear about him when he was at loan at Oxford.

Now compare the likes of Cesc or Senderos who joined the club at similar ages, and look how well they have performed. It shows a lot about English kids. Walcott comes from a good family who (Sir Clyde the Cricketer is his grandfather)
 
Wenger responds with:

"I feel responsible for the traditions of the club.
The English national team is responsible for representing the English nation so I don't understand these remarks. We want to kick racism out of the game and that's the responsibility of managers and the union."
Click to expand...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4793868.stm

Spot on.

Also, it annoys me when people praise Chelsea for having a "core" of English players, like they're a shining beacon of homegrown talent. Chelsea don't play Terry, Lampard and Coel because they're English, they play them because they're all top quality players who deserve their place. That they're English too is merely a happy coincedence.
 
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