ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Raz said:
And who is playing coy?

I'm fully aware of the differences within Islam and I'm also well aware of the double standards etc many people use when arguing against Islam.

If Islam as a religion is responsible for terrorism then why aren't Muslim countries on the offensive? Don't even bother about the Calipha because I didn't see that being used in discussions around the actions of AQ and other groups. So far it's been about the Quran.
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My point was it isn't so simple - the actions of groups like AQ are often considered aberrant but that doesn't necessarily absolve Islam or the Quran.
 
bitslice said:
They still are, State sponsored terrorism is rife in the Middle East, Gadhafi sent weapons to Ireland, Saudi promotes Wahhabism all over Europe via schools and mosques, Qatar and Kuwait sponsor al-Nusra, Iran sponsors groups in Palestine and Iraq.

ISIS and Gadhafi were open about their desire to conquer Europe by the back door. Pakistan is constantly at daggers drawn with India.

There is no negotiation with tribal blood feud mentality.
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All because some guy went up a mountain, met an angel, and died without telling anyone who was the next boss of the angel story. Oh, and the massive army his magical fairy story allowed him to create.

Not sure why the man with divine backing needed an army, but apparently he did so good job really.

Bit of a **** up dying without passing the baton on, billions have died because of it ever since. Wonder if God is happy about that?
 
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bitslice said:
They still are, State sponsored terrorism is rife in the Middle East, Gadhafi sent weapons to Ireland, Saudi promotes Wahhabism all over Europe via schools and mosques, Qatar and Kuwait sponsor al-Nusra, Iran sponsors groups in Palestine and Iraq.

ISIS and Gadhafi were open about their desire to conquer Europe by the back door. Pakistan is constantly at daggers drawn with India.

There is no negotiation with tribal blood feud mentality.
Click to expand...

You're not actually addressing the points and it's not very difficult.

- People on this forum and the world over think that ISIS other Muslim terrorists are simply doing what Islam and the Quran states. ISIS and co are bloodthirsty and intent on a convert or die mentality, and because the Quran promises heaven to martyrs they have no problem in losing their life fighting.

- There are sovereign Muslim states with professional armies made up of Muslims who believe in Allah, Muhammad and follow the Quran.

- These Muslim armies and nations are strangely NOT rampaging across the globe spreading Islam, even though the Quran apparently tells them to.

-So why are terrorists trying to follow the Quran, but Muslim armies aren't? Why don't the Muslim soldiers simply join the terrorists?

And so on.

By the way, if you think the Pakistan/India conflict is related to religion in this context then that explains a lot about your views and level of understanding.
 
kitch9 said:
All because some guy went up a mountain, met an angel, and died without telling anyone who was the next boss of the angel story. Oh, and the massive army his magical fairy story allowed him to create.
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Only slightly worse than a lie about an affair that got well out of hand :D.


I just saw that channel 4 thing and panicked :(. I'm really happy to hear it was just panic (hate that I have said that).
 
bitslice said:
They still are, State sponsored terrorism is rife in the Middle East, Gadhafi sent weapons to Ireland, Saudi promotes Wahhabism all over Europe via schools and mosques, Qatar and Kuwait sponsor al-Nusra, Iran sponsors groups in Palestine and Iraq.

ISIS and Gadhafi were open about their desire to conquer Europe by the back door. Pakistan is constantly at daggers drawn with India.

There is no negotiation with tribal blood feud mentality.
Click to expand...

Demonising some target to appeal to weak minded people to join the cause rather than admitting their own issues.
 
Raz said:
- These Muslim armies and nations are strangely NOT rampaging across the globe spreading Islam, even though the Quran apparently tells them to.
Click to expand...

This is where your post falls apart because it isn't a black and white either the Quran tells them to or doesn't tell them to.
 
Raz said:
You're not actually addressing the points and it's not very difficult.

- People on this forum and the world over think that ISIS other Muslim terrorists are simply doing what Islam and the Quran states. ISIS and co are bloodthirsty and intent on a convert or die mentality, and because the Quran promises heaven to martyrs they have no problem in losing their life fighting.

- There are sovereign Muslim states with professional armies made up of Muslims who believe in Allah, Muhammad and follow the Quran.

- These Muslim armies and nations are strangely NOT rampaging across the globe spreading Islam, even though the Quran apparently tells them to.

-So why are terrorists trying to follow the Quran, but Muslim armies aren't? Why don't the Muslim soldiers simply join the terrorists?

And so on.

By the way, if you think the Pakistan/India conflict is related to religion in this context then that explains a lot about your views and level of understanding.
Click to expand...

Isn't that how the Ottoman empire began?
 
StriderX said:
Isn't that how the Ottoman empire began?
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No, plenty of Muslim armies before the Ottomans. They were simply the Caliphate of the day. Rashidun Empire's army was just that - an army of Muslims, replaced by the Ummayads, Abbasids and so on until things fractured and the Muslim land became smaller nations.
 
Like I said earlier

Lesson1

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Threat Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
Lesson 2(a)

Think of it:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confucians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
Lesson 2(b)
Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM
Lesson (3a)
**********SO THIS LEADS TO *****************

They're not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan
Lesson 3(b)
******** So, where are they happy? **********

They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India
They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they blame?
Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves, THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!
And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will get hammered!
Lesson 4
Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
ISIS : AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
AND A LOT MORE!

And We just can’t figure out who's causing the problem.
 
Rroff said:
This is where your post falls apart because it isn't a black and white either the Quran tells them to or doesn't tell them to.
Click to expand...

Of course it's not black and white, which is what I've been saying.

ISIS may be 'Muslim' and use Islamic literature/material to support their agenda, but there are a number of external factors influencing them. The fact that the attackers in Paris linked their attack to Syria should make it obvious.
 
I suspect the whole point of these attacks is to provoke a backlash among the populations of Western nations. ISIS would love us to blame Islam, to blame and marginalise all Muslims. The less tolerant we become, the easier it will be to rally more people to their cause.
 
As for the boots on the ground...

Due to difficulty getting inbreds, err I mean new recruits, into Syria the new ISIS tactic is to recruit, manage and operate locally. The borders and routes used are closing up - the Kurds that hate ISIS (that the turkish hate) now control large portions of the border. It seems that Lebanon and Iran are also difficult paths.. so they're attempting remote gorilla tactics.

This means comms are weaker, less frequent, but are easier to infiltrate. However the value in arresting any recruit is that the cell will fall and another one appears that needs interactive communications after the initial follow up scenario..

It also means that native people are recruited and subject to native laws - this is designed by ISIS to make muslims become more segregated when there subjected to more severe anti-terrorism measures. The reality is that the same terror laws apply to everyone but naturally they will feel victimised and more prone to recruitment as brothers/sisters etc are interrogated and locked up.

It becomes a chain reaction - as the feeling of segregation creates more radical recruits, that drives the terror industrial conveyor belts that then causes more ill feeling and segregation.
Religious leaders can break this by making movements to integrate, and by renouncing the terrorism and naming the cyclic tactic that ISIS are following.

You cannot bomb an idea out of existence, you cannot prevent people from being exposed to the idea - the warfare is to break the propaganda.
 
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fadetoblack said:
Like I said earlier

Lesson1

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Threat Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
Lesson 2(a)

Think of it:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confucians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
Lesson 2(b)
Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM
Lesson (3a)
**********SO THIS LEADS TO *****************

They're not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan
Lesson 3(b)
******** So, where are they happy? **********

They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India
They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they blame?
Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves, THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!
And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will get hammered!
Lesson 4
Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
ISIS : AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
AND A LOT MORE!

And We just can’t figure out who's causing the problem.
Click to expand...

This is great - I can see it being re-posted many times!
 
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