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Isn't it possible that AMD will save it's most powerful GPU designs for 5nm TSMC fab process?

g67575

g67575

g67575

Soldato
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30 Jun 2019
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5nm TSMC fab process could be ready for wide spread use in a variety of products by 2021. I know many want to believe that 2020 is a great year to upgrade.

But, what if AMD was planning (and hoping) to use TSMC 5nm this year (or early 2021) for both CPUs and GPUs, but the yields were too low, the transistor densities weren't as high as expected (yet), or there was simply too much demand for TSMC 5nm (insufficient production capacity)?
 
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I wonder if AMD will bother with TSMC 7nm EUV next year, or if they will just use TSMC 5nm for most products.

According to this website, we still dont know what the transistor density for most TSMC 5nm (EUV) devices will be, but it's estimated to be ~171mm squared (this estimate is apparently for the improved N5P process).

Links:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/5_nm_lithography_process#TSMC

https://www.techpowerup.com/264994/...transistor-density-gain-over-current-7nm-node

Samsung is getting ~126mm with their 5nm EUV fab process, not such a massive increase vs 7nm.
 
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I think AMD will probably be waiting for the TSMC N5P to be ready, which might not be that long. According to wikichip "Risk production for N5P is expected to start around the fourth quarter of 2020 with volume production starting sometimes in 2021". I think that means TSMC are probably selling the node to AMD (amongst others) already or soon, but its still not ready to be used in consumer products yet.
 
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Grim5 said:
If you understand how this tech works even only a tiny little bit you'd know why.
Click to expand...

What special knowledge do you have about 5nm and it's development :D

The process is called N5P. Similarly improved 7nm process nodes have been used for RDNA 2 console SOCs (GPU and CPU), called N7P. The actual name was N7e in this case, but I think its basically another DUV variant of N7P.

Multiple variants can be developed at the same time for GPUs and CPUs if needed.

Sorry, but your argument is garbage. Except for, perhaps CPUs will be given priority to use the 5nm fab process, before GPUs. This will help AMD compete with Intel in 2021, even as Intel finally (plans to) release 10nm based desktop CPUs.
 
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I don't think you'd see anyone in the rumour mill suggesting this, most people want 'good news' that meets their short term expectations.
 
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Well, actually the first AMD 7nm GPU - The Radeon VII, was released in February 2019, a few months before the release of the Ryzen 3000 CPU series in July 2019.

And that was a fairly new fab. process.

AMD also released the 7nm based rx 5700 series GPUs at the same time as the Ryzen 3000 series, in July 2019.

So, it can be done, at least in some cases.
 
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There's also rumours of a Navi 31 being developed, for potential release in 2021. If true, I wonder if this design and others could be 5nm GPUs?

MCM designs might only be used for compute CDNA based GPUs, at least initially in 2021.
 
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I could be wrong, but TSMC seems to be investing heavily into 5nm production. I think there will be enough capacity to go around, by the time the N5p fab process has passed risk production.
 
The hype train is now running at 'full steam ahead' and with about the same level of sophistication.

There is absolutely no chance AMD will 'delay' some GPUs, to wait for TSMC 5nm availability according to the main Navi hype mongering thread :D
 
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Anyone going to weigh in on this? What do you make of the TSMC 5nm / '5nm+' plans outlined here:

https://hexus.net/tech/news/industry/142480-list-tsmc-5nm-customers-orders-published/

Perhaps unsurprisingly, it looks like both Nvidia and AMD have booked 5nm well in advance, for 2021-2022.

Personally, I don't think too much attention should be paid to the RDNA 3 / Hopper architecture names, the names themselves (and any associated rumours) probably don't matter much in my view.

Speculation - AMD and Nvidia are waiting for volume production of N5+ rather than standard 5nm, as this is better suited to higher spec parts, such as GPUs and CPUs.

Maybe even 3/4nm wide usage by 2023, if all goes to plan?
 
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It could literally be (almost) any time in 2021, that's the beauty of it, endless speculation. There's a slight chance it could be delayed, in which case, the vagueness has them covered.
 
Well the name of the GPU AMD said they would release later on this year, around January 2020 (rumours for names were flying around ever since the launch of RX 5000 series) was 'Big Navi'.

OVuJURY.jpg


The Radeon RX Twitter page confirms here that 'Big Navi' was the GPU they were previewing on the 8th October.

There's probably some good reasons why AMD didn't confirm the GPU's name on the slides themselves, isn't it far more likely that GPUs more powerful than 'Big Navi' will come next year?
 
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I'd go with the Newegg spec estimate of 300w tdp for the Big Navi GPU shown in the benchmarks. They can bring down the TDP of future graphics cards next year by switching to 5nm.

My current GPU has a TDP of 275w (R9 390), so hopefully I'd still be able to upgrade to Big Navi with my Seasonic PRIME Ultra Gold 650W PSU (if the price is reasonable).
 
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