Isn't this Dragons Den idea illegal?

flibbage0 · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:19

Was watching dragons den and one of the pitches was a competition raffle website. You basically buy a ticket and answer a multiple choice question, the question though is really basic, e.g. What is the colour of the car? Or one of them was what manufacturer produces this car?

I've looked up the gambling commission and found this;

How is this legal?

Here is the website, hopefully it doesn't break any rules
https://www.elitecompetitions.co.uk/

EDIT: I should point out they stated that they do not need a lottery license on dragons den

Kenai · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:24

It doesn't make it illegal, it just means they'd need a lottery license, which they presumably have?

flibbage0 · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:28

Kenai said:
It doesn't make it illegal, it just means they'd need a lottery license, which they presumably have?

They don't, they even said on the show that they don't need a license

asim18 · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:29

It's because you can enter for free.

flibbage0 · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:33

asim18 said:
It's because you can enter for free.

But you can't? Unless I'm mistaken I can't see an option to enter for free

Kenai · 9 Dec 2018 at 23:34

asim18 said:
It's because you can enter for free.

Yes, probably this if they not operating as a lottery.

13. Free Entry Method

13.1 Send your: Name, Address, DOB, Contact phone number, desired number of choice, and correct answer for that competition.

Post to: Elite Competitions, Building 09, Office 1, Unit 1, Preese Hall Farm, Weeton, Lancashire, PR4 3HT.

13.2 Postal entries are limited to one competition entrant per envelope.

13.3 The Entrant must specify which competition they wish to enter; also they should specify which number/s they desire.

13.3 If the number/s not available by the time the postal entry has arrived and been processed a replacement random number/s will be allocated.

13.4 Promoter will process all free entries on a Monday of each week and will be the sole responsibility for a staff member on this day.

13.5 The free entries will be treated in the exact same manner as the paid entries, in addition the free entries will be entered into the ‘Live Draws’ in the same manner.

13.6 Standard competition terms and conditions apply for free entries.

I wonder how effectively you could abuse that? It says limited to one entrant per envelope, which isn't the same as one entry. 13.3 then refer to selecting the 'number/s' implying you can select more than one - what would happen if you selected all the numbers I wonder?

HungryHippos · 10 Dec 2018 at 00:42

Not a fan of this kind of thing. Preys on people who don't really have the cash to simply save up and buy stuff.

Jokester · 10 Dec 2018 at 00:42

It’s no different to the competitions they run on the likes of This Morning.

HungryHippos · 10 Dec 2018 at 01:01

What's the point of the questions though? Surely it's just like doing a raffle you buy a ticket you have a chance of winning.

I assume they need to sell around 50% of the tickets to break even on each one.

EDIT - Nevermind just watching the video on youtube they need the questions to bypass the gambling licence as it requires some "skill" to play it.

Hotwired · 10 Dec 2018 at 01:44

Morally sketchy business.

Sounds exactly the kind of thing that would get the govt looking harder at the rules it's dodging if it became big enough. Aaaaand there goes your investment.

asim18 · 10 Dec 2018 at 03:24

The website is horrendous even the BBC logo is stretched too wide lmao. The last thing you do is stretch a logo, let alone a logo with squares in it

.

stoofa · 10 Dec 2018 at 09:19

Is it all down to the "skill" required to answer the question?
So asking the question "What colour is the yellow sun?" would be considered a fail on this test. A large segment within the program of the Battle of Hastings 1066 and then being asked "What year was the battle of Hastings?" would also fall foul.
However asking the question, giving a choice of 4, even if one of those is the obvious answer is fine and asking an open ended question, no matter how "simple" so long as you're not given the answer within the text of the question, the same piece of paper as the question or within the same TV show the question appears on, is also still considered a "game of skill" and doesn't require the lottery licence.

DJ85 · 10 Dec 2018 at 09:29

Just a different way to sell things I suppose, if you look at the m5 nearly 2000 tickets at £25 each comes to around £35k so about the price of it maybe a bit less but then who owns the car and who makes the money can’t be very profitable. I see the tickets are all reduced so they maybe start a lot higher in price then start dropping to get the last sold

dowie · 10 Dec 2018 at 17:28

flibbage0 said:
EDIT: I should point out they stated that they do not need a lottery license on dragons den

They probably don't.

stoofa said:
Is it all down to the "skill" required to answer the question?

Sort of, AFAIK if there is a low skill question then they'd best offer a method by which you can enter for free, on the other hand if they've asked a harder question then they can potentially get away with not offering a free entry.

Take a look at some of the win a house competitions (they were popular after the financial crisis and seem to be coming back into fashion now as house prices are falling in some area and stamp duty rather have been ramped up a bit on expensive properties. For some of these competitions there is a free entry option (and where ticket prices can be around a tenner or so then that free entry option is quite tempting) for others the question is deemed hard enough that the gambling commission is ok with them not offering a free entry option and it being a game of skill not a lottery.

Amusingly enough most of the win a house competitions never sell enough tickets and so an alternative cash draw takes place and the person running the competition takes 25% - so basically like a lottery anyway, albeit the free entry option for the cost of a stamp and an envelope is quite likely a +EV bet. There is of course a non zero chance that the person running the competition doesn't like the free entries and so some of them get lost etc.. I doubt there is much supervision of this. Also in some competitions the ability to enter freely is more easily found than others - where the free entry option is buried deep in the terms and conditions then there are no doubt a fewer % of free entries (which is beneficial for anyone taking advantage of it assuming the competition runner isn't vindictive).

The other alternative is for them to offer a spot the ball type competition where the location of the ball is later judged by a panel. (I think this is used for win a supercar type competitions too).

robfosters · 10 Dec 2018 at 21:32

Reminds me of the auction sites like madbid.

They’re nothing more than expensive, glorified lucky dips.

Fourstar · 11 Dec 2018 at 10:02

I was trying to work out how they could turn a profit on those cars until I realised they are all 5+ years old!

The Panamera claims to come with 5 months of Porsche warranty but there is no mention for the other cars. With a competition like this I wonder if you have any comeback should your prize lunch itself the first day you have it.

dowie · 11 Dec 2018 at 11:55

Fourstar said:
I was trying to work out how they could turn a profit on those cars until I realised they are all 5+ years old!

yeah there is a MacBook Air on there that they are selling over 2k worth of tickets for

also if they don't sell sufficient tickets then they'll have a cash prize draw instead albeit they get to skim 30% of the cash off the top

the one thing that can undo their business model (aside from not getting the numbers in to sustain it) is the free entry method, though it seem they've limited entrants to 5 per competition

Ay Jay · 2 Jun 2019 at 20:02

dowie said:
one thing that can undo their business model (aside from not getting the numbers in to sustain it) is the free entry method, though it seem they've limited entrants to 5 per competition

How do you know its limited to 5 free tickets per competition? Surely that cant unravel their business if they are required to provide 5 free entrees?

Thekwango · 2 Jun 2019 at 20:11

Ay Jay said:
How do you know its limited to 5 free tickets per competition? Surely that cant unravel their business if they are required to provide 5 free entrees?

wait what, someone is offering free entrees? I could eat, where do I get them?

Diagro · 2 Jun 2019 at 20:14

Some of these have a value of far more than the real value of the item. That in itself shouldn't be legal tbh