Jag S-type buying help

Soldato
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Right,
My fathers decided against a "new" Rover 75, after much persuasion and is now looking at 1/2 year old Jag S-types.

He's looking at the 2.5 and 3.0 V6 engines and either auto or manual gearboxes. Car has to be less than 3 years old (less than 2 ideally), less than 30000 miles and pretty much top spec (tv or sat nav not really needed).

Originally he was looking just at the manual box, but it's looking to be near impossible to find a decent manual car.

Anything he should look out for? Any known problems? Any experience of Manual/Auto boxes?

He's planning to go over to England on Saturday to have a look (as they are all silly expensive here), so all advice would be appreciated :D

Cheers
 
If I am having a nightmare finding a BMW 5 Series Sport with a manual box he has next to zero chance of getting an S-Type with one.

Make sure he gets a 2003 S-Type or newer - the previous ones, although virtually identical, were a bit gash. You might have a problem with your rather restrictive mileage limit - most people dont buy an executive car and not use it - many tend to do big miles, and those that do buy them and dont use them are retired old blokes who wont want to sell them at 2-3 years old.
 
My dad has an 01 plate S-type. Its the 4.0 v8 though so cant help you on the engine front. However, it is an auto... and I cant really say through my own experience as i haven't driven many autos. My dad and a neighbour who owns a Merc C class auto say its a very good box. Neighbour said it was far better than his auto. Think my dad paid £12000 and it had 30,000 miles on the clock. Not had a single problem with it yet (7 months on)

Tom
 
I don't think they ever made a manual S-Type

They don't offer them new anyway :)

As Fox said though, they were comprehensively revised in 2003. They were still good cars before, but not up to the standard of the 5-Series

OT - if you Dad likes the 75 then why not let him buy it? It's a great car, very underrated. Best car Rover has made for years (although not up there with an S-Type though!)
 
[TW]Fox said:
If I am having a nightmare finding a BMW 5 Series Sport with a manual box he has next to zero chance of getting an S-Type with one.

Make sure he gets a 2003 S-Type or newer - the previous ones, although virtually identical, were a bit gash. You might have a problem with your rather restrictive mileage limit - most people dont buy an executive car and not use it - many tend to do big miles, and those that do buy them and dont use them are retired old blokes who wont want to sell them at 2-3 years old.
I spent all today trawling the net for manual S-types. There are 3 for sale over here and about 20 over in the UK that meet the specs!
Cheers for the heads up on the facelift - that was about all I knew about the model!
The reason for the mileage limit is due to the mentality over here - people run a mile if a car has over 80k, and he wants to keep the car for 3/4 years doing about 10k/year...

ajgoodfellow said:
I don't think they ever made a manual S-Type

They don't offer them new anyway :)

As Fox said though, they were comprehensively revised in 2003. They were still good cars before, but not up to the standard of the 5-Series

OT - if you Dad likes the 75 then why not let him buy it? It's a great car, very underrated. Best car Rover has made for years (although not up there with an S-Type though!)
They did make them :) Offer them new also. Not nearly the variety used though.
He loves his 75 he has now, but he can get a 3.0V6 with more toys for not much more (about £6k) than a 2.5V6 75, and it'll hold its value better, so it makes sense. When I say I've persuaed him to get one, I meant consider one as an alternative - he always thought of them as ridiculously expensive :)


Anything that we should look out for apart from the obvious?!
 
Ah - according to the guy at the motorshow the only manual jaguar is the X-Type, hence what I said! (I asked about a manual S-Type)

From Honest John (link)

Honest John said:
What's Good
'Smaller' rear-drive Jaguar with design cues from 1960s Mk II. Actually far from small at 15' 11" long by 6' wide and weighing from 1,628kg. Began with choice of 240 bhp 3.0 Duratec V6 or 280 bhp 4.0 Jaguar V8 engines. Manual (V6 only) or Ford auto. CATS option of adaptive damping and 17in wheels worth having. Prices started at £26,700 OTR. Good to drive, with immense charm, enough steering feel, decent handling and good ride quality. A success from day one. Six-cylinder manual model the recommended choice. Steering, gearchange and engine management system all improved by early 2001. S and T reg cars came a good 17th in 2001 Top Gear / JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey, ahead of the Toyota Corolla. From January 2002, six-speed automatic 4.2 supercharged S-Type R with huge 541Nm (399lb ft) at 3,500rpm; sixty mph comes up in just 5.3 seconds, top speed limited to 155mph. On the road price is £47,400, combined fuel consumption 22.5mpg and C02 output 314g/km which means a hefty company car BIK tax bill of £6,636 pa for a 40% taxpayer. At the other end of the scale, Jaguar also launched a more BIK friendly 201bhp 2.5 litre V6 engine which, with five-speed manual box pumps out 229g/km and with a retail price of £24,950 means a BIK bill of £2,794. S-Type 2.5 gets to sixty in 8.2 seconds, goes on to 142mph and stretches each gallon 29.6 miles in the combined cycle. Other new offerings are a 2.5 V6 six-speed automatic, a 240bhp 3.0 V6 five-speed manual or six-speed automatic and a 300bhp unsupercharged 4.2V8. On the road prices are £28,900, £29,950, £31,400 and £36,000 respectively. 3 year UNLIMITED MILEAGE warranty on all new Jags sold by UK Jag dealers from 24-1-2002. 207bhp Dagenham built 35mpg 2.7 litre V6 24v TDCi V6 diesel announced 6-6-2003, but not due for sale in UK intil summer 2004. 3.0V6 MANUAL and 4.2V8 6-speed auto RECOMMENDED. 2.5V6 6-speed auto not bad at all. Average number of breakdowns, problems and faults and rated a 'Best Buy' in 2003 Which survey. Comprehensive facelift for 2004 includes aluminium bonnet and wonderful retro cockpit reminiscent of original 1961 E-Type. 2.7 litre twin-turbo AJD V6 diesel from June 2004. 6 speed manual or 6 speed automatic. Has 153kW (206bhp) and 435Nm (320lb ft) torque, 80% between 1,500 and 4,000rpm. Does 0-60 in 8.1 seconds (auto 8.2), tops out at 140mph, offers 40mpg combined and 189g/km CO2. Insurance Group of diesel 14E. Revised S Type pricing from April 2004: From £25,770 for 2.5V6 (Sport or SE £29,770); From £27,670 for 2.7D (Sport or SE £31,670); 3.0V6 Sport or SE £32,270; 4.2V8 SE £37,170 (Sport £38,270); 400bhp S-Type R £49,995. Which? best buy 2004. Which? used best buy £15,000 - £20,000 2004. Used prices now from around £5,000 for early examples.

S-Type 2.5 Plus model from May 2005 at £25,995 has 6 speed automatic, leather, alloys and park distance control.

Very good looking estate version photographed in 2006.


Road test 2001 S-Type 3.0V6 Sport manual at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=22

Road test S-Type range with 2002 improvements at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=57

Road test S-Type 2.7 diesel at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=136

Much more at newly updatedwww.jaguar.co.uk

Jaguar websites finder: Finding great websites fast.
What's Bad
No limited slip diff, so apt to rely on traction control instead. Outclassed in handling, roadholding and safety by W211 E Class Mercedes. Automatic 'J' change of older 5-speed autobox can be sloppy and apt to drop a gear unasked when you're halfway round a corner. These autoboxes are also prone to failure at around 60,000 miles. Early V6 manuals criticised for baulky gearchange and too revvy engine management system. Second-hand prices higher than same age XJ8s. Rare on S-Type problem of V8 blocks suffering Nickasil bore liner problems after 50,000 - 60,000 miles, losing compression and being replaced without question by Jaguar if under 100k miles, under 5 years old, with full Jaguar service history. Timing chain tensioner problems on V8s. Water leaks into boot compartment play havoc with electrics (because that's where the battery sits). Have been problems with Mondeo based electric window winding mechanisms. Typical failures include ignition coils, water leaks, seat motor, window motor, door lock and security alarm faults. Whining of Type R's Eaton supercharger sounds great to start with but can become wearing on the driver. Have been problems of misaligned propshafts, premature disc wear, porous heads on V6s and PAS pump failures. 6-speed autoboxes have required software upgrades, and new electronic parking brake (from 2002MY) has caused excessive rear disc and pad wear. On 2.7 diesel in winter engine pre-heater is close to ventilation system can apt to fill the cabin with fumes. Torque converter failures of 6-speed automatics becoming quite common. Jaguar had fifth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 126.91 v/s lowest 31.93). Jaguar 2nd bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining high average cost of repair of £483.26 with high 42.16 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk www.warrantydirect.co.uk now refuses cover on supercharged Jaguar V8s.

Problem of lurching of ZF autobox covered at www.thelurch.com plus numerous other Jaguar TSBs. This can be cured by using different automatic transmission fluid.

Alarm problem may be due to a faulty 'boot open' switch. Misplaced
sealing ring allows damp to corrode the switch contacts. Cleaning
the contacts solves the problem.
What to Watch Out For
Lumpy feeling V8 engine is a sign of the V8 engine problem above. Rarely affects S Type, but has affected some. Definitely no problem from September 2000 build as had cast iron bore liners from then on. Check all electrics as best you can before buying (particularly important with auction bought cars.) Thread for insertion of rear towing eye is ANTI-CLOCKWISE. This isn't mentioned in the driver's handbook. Listen for noisy timing chain: sign of tensioner problems on V8s. Bonnet safety catch can corrode from road salt and seize open, so does not restrain the bonnet if main catch fails. Make sure the safety catch is well greased and working properly. Needs re-checking at least once a month in the winter.
Recalls
4/10/2000: 2,109 S Types built 5/200 to 7/2000 recalled because part in front seatbelt buckles not to standard and may release the belt when subject to load. All buckle assemblies between production dates to be replaced. 23/11/2000: 18,062 S Types built 1/1999 to 9/2000 recalled because first thread of the ball stud in the front suspension lower ball joint could fracture leading to separation of the lower control arm from the knuckle leading to limited steering control. Ball joints to be checked and vertical links to be replaced if necessary. Defective timing chain tensioner apparently subject to a recall, but cannot give a date. April 2004: Recall because 6-speed automatic can slip into reverse at high speed due to computer software problem (per 'Auto Express' 21-4-2004). TSB (unknown date) Apparently Auto transmission fluid looses viscosity and the remedy is to replace the fluid and reset the adaptive sensors. That might overcome the torque converter problems outlined above.

TSB R-513 recall: On certain passenger vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions, with the forward gear selected and the vehicle stationary or in a forward motion, the gearbox could potentially select reverse gear, without indication.
Internal : With the vehicle stationary, and Drive (D) is selected, the transmission may select Reverse (R) if there is insufficient oil pressure in the transmission and/or a sticking valve within the transmission. If this condition is
present, the vehicle will default to Mechanical Limp Home mode and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will illuminate.

TSB S307-17. Drifting of program for adaptive learning. Now involves both engine AND gearbox reprogramming to address customer concern of harsh transmission shifts, particularly 3 - 2, 2 -1 roll out and 1-2 up-shifts The adaptive shift strategy drifting over time causing higher than normal clutch pressures. To eliminate the issues outlined in the summary the transmission adaptions must be cleared and the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and the Engine Control Module (ECM) should be re-configured using the Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) with software release JTP 759/35 or later. Should a customer express concern, follow the Service Instruction outlined below.

TSB S307-15 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address customer concerns of a squeal or squeak noise heard during gearshifts under acceleration.

TSB S307-14 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address a customer concern of a surge in excess of 150rpm during engine warm up, at a temperature of 30°C to 50°C and at a vehicle speed in the region of 40mph (64.3kph) to 60mph (96.5kph).
 
That is incredibly helpful! Cheers.

I like the fact that it recommends the 3.0V6 Manual - the model my dad was looking at :)
 
The 3.0 auto is such a good box and with all that torque and in such a big car why do you want to be messing about with gears? You're sat in a big wide leather armchair with everything to hand, the last thing you want is a gearstick to have to row back and forth.

A pal from school days has one and he loves it. It's a nice car, gets good mileage and handles reasonably well. He said the handling control has baled him out once or twice. I'd have one.
 
commited said:
The reason for the mileage limit is due to the mentality over here - people run a mile if a car has over 80k, and he wants to keep the car for 3/4 years doing about 10k/year...

I appreciate this BUT you are already going to seriously limit its resale value by chosing a manual - in a Jaguar of this type an Automatic is near as damnit absolutely essential, a manual box will crucify the residuals. Even in the 5 Series Sport, a more 'Sporting' setup car, a manual box knocks up to £2,500 off the price - more than 90k on an auto v 50k on an auto would, for example.

Get the Automatic.
 
Agree with Fox's last comment.

People don't want a manual box in that type of car. For re-sale you will be peddling to a very limited audience and are likely to lose a lot of money.
 
Jonny69 said:
The 3.0 auto is such a good box and with all that torque and in such a big car why do you want to be messing about with gears? You're sat in a big wide leather armchair with everything to hand, the last thing you want is a gearstick to have to row back and forth.
He's looking at both manual and automatic. The bottom line is, its his car, his choice - he's going to test drive both and see what he prefers. He's always had manuals in the past, so "rowing" a gearstick back and forth is absolutely no hassle.
I said all that to him, and he agreed, hence why he is considering the auto. He prefers a manual gearbox though.

[TW]Fox said:
I appreciate this BUT you are already going to seriously limit its resale value by chosing a manual - in a Jaguar of this type an Automatic is near as damnit absolutely essential, a manual box will crucify the residuals. Even in the 5 Series Sport, a more 'Sporting' setup car, a manual box knocks up to £2,500 off the price - more than 90k on an auto v 50k on an auto would, for example.

Get the Automatic.
Well, the 2 of the 3 manuals I found over here sold within a week of going on sale, so it cant be that much of an issue. Irelands a different market to the UK. I agree with your theory though, but as you've proved with your purchasing requirements, there are people out there who want manual!
He isnt set in stone on a manual, but we've found some well specced cheap manual cars, with low miles, so he's tempted by them at the moment.

Paras said:
You should look at a 2.7 turbo diesel, it’s a fantastic engine, its nice enough car my dad wanted one before the e-class.
He has a long standing thing against diesels! Had a chat about it last night, he knows about all the refinements etc, just refuses to have one!
 
Not sure, if he'd consider it, but if you upped the minimum mileage (and maybe the budget) just a little. You'd get yourself a 3 year old XJ (the 2003 on model) for a similar price to a 2 year old S-Type. It's a lighter car (although biggger) than the S-Type, so even with the same 3.0 V6, its a tad more frugal and just as fast. These are absolutely tremendous cars and outclass the s-type and pretty much any other luxury car in its price bracket.

EDIT: Prices are a bit more than i thought for an XJ still (still worth considering though).

Your Dad seems to share a similar taste in cars to me :D, currently driving an (old) jag, considering moving to a 75, student loan allowing ;)

Regarding transmissions, these cars were built with automatic shifting in mind, and a manual does ignore the "effortless" ethos of jaguars. But at the end of the day, its a personal thing and only your Dad can make his mind
 
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I suggested the XJ to him, but he doesnt like the look of them, and he doesnt want a car thats too big (my mum will drive it every now and again).

He's off this weekend to test drive a load of S-types and check out the various trim levels etc. As soon as he picks one up, I get the 75 until it's sold :cool:
 
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