Job references, responsibility?

ash_scotland88 · 22 Feb 2011 at 13:52

Just wondering if someone can provide some legal/factual insight into this.

Partner is working in a new job, has been for 6months. Company has tried to get references off past employers/education.
Now for whatever reason some companies haven't replied, change of manager, change of ownership (sainsburies into tesco type thing) or just plain lazy.
Now he is being pulled into HR and basically blame is being put onto him for them not providing references, as if it is his fault and responsibility to go around each company and get them to do it.

We both see this as beyond his control, he has basically done their work for them by emailing, phoning, writing to the companies asking for a reference and now HR are "punishing" him for their mistakes. There is nothing more he can do short of harasment to past employors.

What happens in these situations? Surely they can't punish him for other companies not playing ball?

I understand there may be some contractal issues, but 6months probation, new contracts etc have all been signed.

Theophany · 22 Feb 2011 at 13:55

Surely the best thing to do would be to obtain references before or whilst in the process of leaving your employer, that way you're inside the organisation rather than an outsider who is less likely to be given attention. Not massively helpful at this point, I know, but something to consider in future.

As for now, would it be possible to make a personal visit to your previous employer and get them to write a reference on the spot?

ash_scotland88 · 22 Feb 2011 at 14:00

I see that would be the only way to do. I think he may have tried for his most recent but the manager was just being a pleb/claimed to be too busy.

Morba · 22 Feb 2011 at 14:02

Theophany said:
Surely the best thing to do would be to obtain references before or whilst in the process of leaving your employer, that way you're inside the organisation rather than an outsider who is less likely to be given attention. Not massively helpful at this point, I know, but something to consider in future.

As for now, would it be possible to make a personal visit to your previous employer and get them to write a reference on the spot?

Thats kinda hard to do when you need to leave the job first or hand the notice in first..

If the company is a major one then get the reference request sent to central HR rather than the store itself.

Theophany · 22 Feb 2011 at 14:02

ash_scotland88 said:
I see that would be the only way to do. I think he may have tried for his most recent but the manager was just being a pleb/claimed to be too busy.

Eugh, not good. When you leave your manager really has no obligation to give you their time and unless you made a good working/friendly relationship with them I can't imagine they'd be inclined to bother spending their time doing it.

Scam · 22 Feb 2011 at 15:23

Theophany said:
Eugh, not good. When you leave your manager really has no obligation to give you their time and unless you made a good working/friendly relationship with them I can't imagine they'd be inclined to bother spending their time doing it.

What? I thought managers always have an obligation to give references for past employees. My new (not anymore) job only asked for my reference after I'd been working there for 3 months!

It sounds like the company in question (obtaining the references) is being a bit silly, but it depends what information was given. At the end of the day a reference can be as little as saying that yes you did work there between dates xx and xx. Surely HR at the old companies can supply that, regardless of new staff etc. :confused:

Burnsy2023 · 22 Feb 2011 at 15:27

Scam said:
What? I thought managers always have an obligation to give references for past employees.

There is no obligation for an employer to provide a reference.

Delvis · 22 Feb 2011 at 15:31

Burnsy2023 said:
There is no obligation for an employer to provide a reference.

This as far as i'm aware...especially if its a bad reference

ash_scotland88 · 22 Feb 2011 at 15:33

Cheers guys.
So basically tell him to tell HR to go screw themselves.
He has provided all the details, checked up on the stores he can, chased up other stores, but in the end if they don't want to provide a reference then they are in no obligation to do so and it's nothing to do with him.

Of course it'll be phrased better.

Scam · 22 Feb 2011 at 15:34

Burnsy2023 said:
There is no obligation for an employer to provide a reference.

Actually yes you're right I was being a bit of a div. In my mind Theophany was insinuating that because he had left the manager was under no obligation to give a reference. As in he wasn't allowed. I dunno, I've only just got up

If the manager is refusing to give a reference then he's being a bit of a ****. I'd call HR of the past cmopany and harass them until someone agrees to give you a reference that says you at least worked there. Screw the other manager. If he didnt work with him anyway then all it can be is a confirmation of him working there.

InvaderGIR · 22 Feb 2011 at 17:17

Scam said:
I'd call HR of the past cmopany and harass them until someone agrees to give you a reference that says you at least worked there.

Why? They have no legal obligation to supply references, so that is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As has been said, if previous jobs are ones such as Tescos, Sainsburys etc. then tell the current HR staff politely to contact the previous employer's central HR office. The employee should not have to run around after the employers.

[TW]Fox · 22 Feb 2011 at 17:24

Why give somebodies name as a reference without first asking if they are happy to provide one?

Rroff · 22 Feb 2011 at 17:24

Theophany said:
Surely the best thing to do would be to obtain references before or whilst in the process of leaving your employer, that way you're inside the organisation rather than an outsider who is less likely to be given attention. Not massively helpful at this point, I know, but something to consider in future.

As for now, would it be possible to make a personal visit to your previous employer and get them to write a reference on the spot?

Last two places I worked refused to give written references (to anyone - I didn't even bother asking).

I'm suprised they even bothered checking with references unless maybe it was a security thing but then they usually check before the job starts - none of the last 3-4 jobs I've done even bothered getting in contact with my references.

InvaderGIR · 22 Feb 2011 at 17:31

[TW]Fox;18524820 said:
Why give somebodies name as a reference without first asking if they are happy to provide one?

In terms of supermarkets they actually don't like you using managers as references, they prefer you to just list the contact details of central HR so that when a new employer contacts them it isn't just your mate Dave from the pub.

But I agree, all of my references have been people I've asked if I could include them.

Rroff said:
I'm suprised they even bothered checking with references unless maybe it was a security thing but then they usually check before the job starts - none of the last 3-4 jobs I've done even bothered getting in contact with my references.

They are almost always carried out once you've started the job.

Scam · 22 Feb 2011 at 18:04

InvaderGIR said:
Why? They have no legal obligation to supply references, so that is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As has been said, if previous jobs are ones such as Tescos, Sainsburys etc. then tell the current HR staff politely to contact the previous employer's central HR office. The employee should not have to run around after the employers.

It's not a waste of time. Imagine if every single company stopped giving references 'because they didnt have to'. You'd get everyone running around pretending to have worked at xx in xx position for xx amount of time. Lying on CVs would be endemic, because no-one would prove otherwise!

It's in an employers interest to play the game, and give references. At the very least to confirm that a person has worked there when they said they did.

Agree with the second part.

InvaderGIR · 22 Feb 2011 at 18:11

Scam said:
It's not a waste of time. Imagine if every single company stopped giving references 'because they didnt have to'. You'd get everyone running around pretending to have worked at xx in xx position for xx amount of time. Lying on CVs would be endemic, because no-one would prove otherwise!

It's in an employers interest to play the game, and give references. At the very least to confirm that a person has worked there when they said they did.

Agree with the second part.

I mean harassing your previous employer's HR department is just going to make them even less inclined to provide a reference. You should only include people that you know are willing to provide a reference anyway, so putting someone down without asking them, then harassing them because they won't provide a reference is taking the wee some what.

I agree employers should provide references though, yes, but I'd side with the employer if you harassed them.

MrMoonX · 22 Feb 2011 at 18:28

i work for NOMS you have to get reference requests sent to a massive MoJ call centre in Wales, they only provide dates you worked, grade salary and wont comment on individual performance, its crazy when managers can only provide a personal reference, but increasingly in big organisations this is how they do things now

Scam · 22 Feb 2011 at 18:32

I meant harass in the looser sense of the word. Don't be nasty. But at the end of the day if someone is not giving a reference (for no reason) and it's potentially going to get you in trouble in your new job, I'd be rather peeved. It'd take a HR person 5mins* to draft a letter stating what dates you worked there. That's the least they could do.

*Maybe more like 30mins for a HR person