Joining 10mm copper pipe - DIY job?

Soldato
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18 Oct 2002
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I replaced a radiator and when I went to replace the TRV and lockshield the pipes were never going to be long enough. I really would have had to bend and force the pipes to get them to marry up to the valve. It wouldn't have been worth going to the effort of removing the olive and forcing it in.

I posted a job on mybuilder etc and have been getting quotes of £100+ to do the job (extend 10mm pipe and fit the trv and lockshield). It really can't be a difficult job for a plumber, so it got me thinking whether I could have a go myself.

Here are some pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/Muw97

I think I'd need a coupler (I believe yorkshire couplers have the solder in the joint so would just need heating) some kind of gas blow torch and a matt to protect the wall.

Is this something that I could do myself? Would the system need to be fully drained or could I bung the system like I have done to change the other valves? What's the best way to bend the pipe in to place?
 
Associate
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It's not hard if you are reasonably practical. But... You will probably end up spending 70 on tools..... What is your time worth

Having faced a similar dilemma and chosen the diy path, I did a cracking job, but if you asked me today I would have handed the cash over to plumber. Learning takes time
 
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Soldato
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Cut the pipes around halfway along the length add a stop valve to each length and boom done (stop valve may be slightly longer than you need).
 
Soldato
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Ok I'm going to go ahead with it. I'm buying a blow torch (only a cheapy one which can be used for other purposes), flux, heating mat, pipe bender and pipe cutter which leaves me with just some pipe to source and the couplers themselves. Parts come to just over £35 which doesn't break the bank plus I'll have them for next time.

https://i.imgur.com/Jupa12D.jpg

In the image above, where should I make the join? Ideally I would probably replace the 45 degree coupler coming out of the wall but not sure I'd be confident to do so. If it's acceptable to cut the pipe after this existing join about 20cm along the pipe, I think it would be hidden by the bottom of the radiator. A sofa will also be covering it as well.

Looks like I'll need to drain down the system rather than bunging it though, not a huge deal.
 
Associate
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Could be a couple of hours work, depending on your heating system. Might take time to refill and balance if necessary. Microbore pipework is almost always a hassle, if your set on soldering make sure you get all the water out or you'll have a hell of a time making a good joint.

Why not use compression couplings? Saves buying a torch and can snatch it together quickly if you can't/don't want to drain it completely. If it's hidden under the rad and behind a sofa it doesn't matter what it looks like so much.
 
Caporegime
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Did you get Yorkshire fittings? They're the best for learners. Did you get a pipe slice? Also good for this application. Drain the system down, measure up what length you need to add, remove the rad, cut the flow and return (so both pipes) and add in a length accordingly. Don't solder until you've tested fitment. Make sure you clean the pipe properly before using it. 99% of the time if a soldered joint leaks, it's because there was dirt in the joint. If you need any more help, feel free to trust me.


Oh and that's 15mm copper, or half inch :)
 
Soldato
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Hmm easy.. I did that under floorboards.

If you're soldering - you'll need:
* solder torch
* solder + flux + small brush
* copper connectors and pipe
* cleaning emery cloth
* goggles/glasses
* heat mat to protect what's behind the pipe..

You don't need a massively powerful gas torch as if the torch is too hot then the solder will just be too fluid, bunch together and then drop. It just needs to be hot enough for the solder to be sucked into the joint.

Easy to practice on pipe in the garden first - by a set of copper connectors and get used to how the process works. As Diddums says - the joint needs to be very clean and perfectly dry. I found that a lot of duff joint attempts break very easily or given a bit of a wobble. The heating engineer was walking on the pipes he laid (22mm) and they weren't braking or crushing!

I got a MAPP System torch - great flame (small & accurate) but it's also quite hot so you have a narrow window.. £15/bottle which is the bad point!

Once done - test then leave for a week with the CH running before making good - if you see any weeping then redo the joint from scratch again.
 
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Soldato
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I got a MAPP System torch - great flame (small & accurate) but it's also quite hot so you have a narrow window.. £15/bottle which is the bad point!
Not sure MAPP gas is a good idea for someone who's never done it before - you'll just wind up burning off all the flux.
 
Soldato
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For a DIY'er with no tools I'd just go for a couple of Tectite sockets and a pipe slice, 5 minutes work and 3 of those are for making a brew when finished.

They also look pretty nice so won't look too shabby at all.
 
Soldato
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Not sure MAPP gas is a good idea for someone who's never done it before - you'll just wind up burning off all the flux.

True - a wider normal flame would work better in this instance.

I found MAPP difficult at first but quickly learnt - the high temps and smaller flame make it faster but also has a narrower window between nothing and overheating the copper, flux and solder.
 
Soldato
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So here are some pictures of the end result (unfortunately the final result is first): http://imgur.com/a/Tr4I4

I saw a video on youtube say the yorkshire fittings aren't for proper plumbers, but they were so convenient and made the job a doddle. Might be a bit different if the couplers were on show but mine were hidden away out of sight. Very satisfying when the line of solder appears :)

The blowtorch I used was a catering one, probably not ideal but wasn't worth me spending £50+ as it's unlikely I'll do this for some time. If I had known how straight forward this would have been, I would have cut the pipes on the other radiators rather than spending 30+ minutes on each radiator hacking the olive off. I then had to make it good on a pitted pipe. Would have been simpler just to replace the pipe exactly how I did it here.

Still not a fan of those 10mm to 15mm compression adapters although the screwfix 1 piece ones are the best I have used, rather than the 3 part ones.

All in all the job cost me around £60, I have 8m of 10mm pipe left over, a blow torch for creme brulees :)D) as well as flux, a heat map, pipe bender etc. Worth doing and worth an argument with the mrs about how I'll mess it up and should just pay for a plumber!

Total cost for 3x new radiators (Kudox type 22), 3x Drayton TRV valves with matching lockshields plus materials around £250. Made a big difference compared to what I removed plus it's nice to have heating in the lounge once again now I have finished decorating.

Thanks for all the suggestions to give me the confidence to do it and proving the mrs wrong :D
 
Man of Honour
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Nice one.
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There's nothing wrong with using Yorkshires at all, I think the reason people prefer the standard end feed is because they look slightly better aesthetically but in your case that doesn't matter at all :)
 
Associate
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Now just wire wool the new joints to get them nice and clean and get rid of any remaining flux - dont want it rotting through the copper in a few years time, flush the system add inhibiter and refill when you are sure theres no leaks
 
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