Just recieved a summons

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 10:35

For not supplying driver details when requested, but I don't remember actually recieving a NIP.... Apparently my car was seen by a traffic warden going down a bus lane! :eek:

... I don't remember doing this... I tend to stick to normal car roads! is there anything I can do?

Dutch Guy · 16 Jan 2006 at 10:47

jpmonkey69 said:
For not supplying driver details when requested, but I don't remember actually recieving a NIP.... Apparently my car was seen by a traffic warden going down a bus lane! ... I don't remember doing this... I tend to stick to normal car roads! is there anything I can do?

Deny, appeal and/or ask for evidence

Can you prove you were not there at that place and time?

Oblivious · 16 Jan 2006 at 10:47

Maybe a possibility its an admin error. Ie, traffic warden wrote the registration down wrong.

Should be information on the summons, on who to contact etc.

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:00

The offence was commited on the 9th of September, and I've only just got the summons... I can't prove I was elsewhere.

It was at 14.40 Hours and the 9th Sept 2005 which was a Friday.... I'm sure I'd have been at work!!!

Oblivious · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:02

Check with your employer, if you were working that day.

They should have it in there records.

SoliD · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:02

jpmonkey69 said:
The offence was commited on the 9th of September, and I've only just got the summons... I can't prove I was elsewhere.

It was at 14.40 Hours and the 9th Sept 2005 which was a Friday.... I'm sure I'd have been at work!!!

any chance of showing that you would have been at work like clocking in/out times?

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:05

SoliD said:
any chance of showing that you would have been at work like clocking in/out times?

We do have an entry system... I'll go and see if HR will let me check it!

kaiowas · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:13

Does it say where the offence took place? Was it in area you might have been or was it in some remote part of the country you've never visited?

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:19

Its in my home town in the town centre, but the road I "went down" is heavily signposted for Buses / Taxis etc only...

I think my plate (whilst not personalized) is fairly easy to remember... It's S** NN*

kaiowas · 16 Jan 2006 at 11:35

jpmonkey69 said:
Its in my home town in the town centre, but the road I "went down" is heavily signposted for Buses / Taxis etc only...

I think my plate (whilst not personalized) is fairly easy to remember... It's S** NN*

Is your number plate a 'local' one?* If it is then it makes it more likely that there is a similar car with a similar plate in the area making mistaken identity sound more feasible.

*if you're unaware, the last two letters of conventionally issued (ie not 'select' private plates) prefix style plates indicate where the car was initially registered. For example around Norfolk there are a lot of registrations ending *AH *CL *NG and *EX

Here's the data for cars with a middle 'N' so yours should be one of these:

NA Manchester Manchester
NB Manchester Manchester
NC Manchester Manchester
ND Manchester Manchester
NE Manchester Manchester
NF Manchester Manchester
NG Norfolk Norwich
NH Northampton Northampton
NI Wicklow
NJ Sussex E Brighton
NK Hertfordshire Luton
NL Northumberland Newcastle-upon-Tyne
NM Bedfordshire Luton
NN Nottinghamshire Nottingham
NO Essex Chelmsford
NP Worcestershire Worcester
NR Leicestershire Leicester
NS Sutherland Glasgow
NT Shropshire Shrewsbury
NU Derbyshire Nottingham
NV Northamptonshire Northampton
NW Leeds Leeds
NX Warwickshire Dudley
NY Glamoghanshire Cardiff

Skii · 16 Jan 2006 at 12:07

Unlucky

I got one of these 2 years after I had apparently committed the offense. I called Westminster council (who were the issuer) who couldn't provide me with any details of the offence committed - the quite freindly chap actually advised me to book the court date and to plead a Statutory Declaration, which it did. The result was it was thrown out of court.

Never did find out what it was I'd actually done wrong lol !

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 12:25

kaiowas said:
Is your number plate a 'local' one?* If it is then it makes it more likely that there is a similar car with a similar plate in the area making mistaken identity sound more feasible.

*if you're unaware, the last two letters of conventionally issued (ie not 'select' private plates) prefix style plates indicate where the car was initially registered. For example around Norfolk there are a lot of registrations ending *AH *CL *NG and *EX

Here's the data for cars with a middle 'N' so yours should be one of these:

NA Manchester Manchester
NB Manchester Manchester
NC Manchester Manchester
ND Manchester Manchester
NE Manchester Manchester
NF Manchester Manchester
NG Norfolk Norwich
NH Northampton Northampton
NI Wicklow
NJ Sussex E Brighton
NK Hertfordshire Luton
NL Northumberland Newcastle-upon-Tyne
NM Bedfordshire Luton
NN Nottinghamshire Nottingham
NO Essex Chelmsford
NP Worcestershire Worcester
NR Leicestershire Leicester
NS Sutherland Glasgow
NT Shropshire Shrewsbury
NU Derbyshire Nottingham
NV Northamptonshire Northampton
NW Leeds Leeds
NX Warwickshire Dudley
NY Glamoghanshire Cardiff

I didnt realise that reg numbers were given on a locality basis as well... and unfortunatly, None of these places are anywhere near me anyway!

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 12:25

Skii said:
Unlucky

I got one of these 2 years after I had apparently committed the offense. I called Westminster council (who were the issuer) who couldn't provide me with any details of the offence committed - the quite freindly chap actually advised me to book the court date and to plead a Statutory Declaration, which it did. The result was it was thrown out of court.

Never did find out what it was I'd actually done wrong lol !

Please can you tell me more about what happened?

Hilly · 16 Jan 2006 at 13:54

Doesn't have to be JP, could be quite feesable that one of those above registration's actually was just visiting the area at the time

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 14:33

I guess I'll just reply saying that I'm not guilty and I'll attend court, although it'll be a pain!

The whole thing has got me a bit rattled tbh.... IF I'd recived a NIP, I'd have filled it in... with a lot better memory of what happened then 4 months later! I don't understand how it is OK for these things NOT to be sent recorded or special delivery if it is important! At least that way there's proof of delivery.

jpmonkey69 · 16 Jan 2006 at 14:36

hilly said:
Doesn't have to be JP, could be quite feesable that one of those above registration's actually was just visiting the area at the time

Just checked on the RAC checker thingy and no cars around my registration mark would be similar to mine in any way.

(apart from the close reg)

Jest3r · 16 Jan 2006 at 14:51

Ask them for details of first offence, if it's similar to speeding offences, paperwork has to be started within 14 days of observed offence, (simple way to get it thrown out)

Hades · 16 Jan 2006 at 15:32

Maybe someone with a cloned number plate was pulled over and given a producer?

Good luck.

Skii · 16 Jan 2006 at 18:31

jpmonkey69 said:
Please can you tell me more about what happened?

Not a lot more to tell really, I came home to a typed notification from Westminster council saying I had failed to stop and provide documents, and it was dated nearly 2 years ago !! Westminster Council couldn't actually tell me anything more specific other than that it was an offence committed on the M25 at 1 am on a January morning.

Well I took the witness stand in court and the clerk read off the offense in court, there was 2 magistrates there, both of whom asked me for more info, to which I replied I have NO idea and this is the first I've ever heard of it. I told them I had been advised to plea a Statutor Declaration (no knowledge of being issued with a ticket / not notified of commiting an offence) and the magistrates immediatley decided that there wasn't further evidence to continue.

Like I said, never did get to find out what I actually did wrong !

Baron G · 17 Jan 2006 at 00:33

jpmonkey69 said:
I don't understand how it is OK for these things NOT to be sent recorded or special delivery if it is important! At least that way there's proof of delivery.

You raise a very valid point. How can legally significant documents be sent by standard post? There is no guarantee of delivery and certainly no record kept as such.

Given the (theoretical) burdon of proof on the prosecution, how can they make a case against anyone who denies receiving an NIP if they cannot prove the notice ever reached its intended recipient?