KEF Q3 or Cambridge Audio S70 for front speakers

famasfilms

famasfilms

famasfilms

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I have an Onkyo 626 receiver and as I've just moved house with a bigger lounge I've set about replacing my Tannoy 5.1 satellites with some floor standers.

The first purchase was a pair of Kef Q3's for £80 off Gumtree, massive difference with these as the front L/R.

I then went into Richer Sounds and bought a Cambridge Audio s50 Centre Speaker.

As luck would have it the next day on Gumtree someone was selling a pair of Cambridge Audio S70 floorspeakers for £60 which I duly snapped up.

Now I am wondering what speakers are best as the front L/R?

My understanding is that Kef is more of a premium brand than Cambridge Audio but the Q3's are older.

Having the CA s70 as the front L/R would mean my front 3 speakers all "match", is that important?
 
Matching across the front is important. The Cambridge Audio gives you that. But yes, the KEFs are another step (or two) higher up in the quality ladder.

In an ideal world you'd have had the chance to grab a s/h KEF centre instead of dropping £100 on the CA S50 centre. It's that speaker - the centre - which is going to set the tone for the rest of the system. That's the speaker that does most work. Getting a good centre speaker which portrays voices with authority, depth and convincing realism makes the biggest impact on a surround sound system. This is where size counts. Smaller centres struggle with midrange and bass depth. The KEF centres (Q9C, Q6C) are pretty large and can just dig deeper. For movie surround use the rest of the speakers apart from the sub are really just tagging along. The centre is the workhorse. The other advantage with the KEFs, particularly with surround, is the UniQ driver and the way it produces a massive "sweet spot".

The Onkyo 626 is capable of driving better speakers than both the S70 and the Q30. I've installed that amp with the KEF TDM THX Reference series speakers. These were from the late 90's /early noughties and they still kick ass today.

If the Q30s have a weakness it's the amount of bass. They're okay for music as long as you don't want tonnes of bass. What's there is tight and tuneful. There's just not a lot of it. In some ways this actually helps with room placement. They'll be a little more forgiving about being pushed in to a corner.

So, what to do.... If you had a KEF centre, then unless you don't like the KEF sound, then I suspect that this would wouldn't even be a question. In the end it comes down to money. You should be able to move the S70's on for what you paid. The S50 centre is going to hit you in the pocket though. The question is are you prepared to accept that? A Q9-C centre shouldn't break the bank. Check out Ebay's completed listings. Prices range from sub-£50 to about £70. Then keep an eye out for the the matching dipoles (Q2ds) though they will be pricey even s/h.
 
I still think sound is subjectional, it's down to what you're happy with, i'm no audiophile,but i like stuff to sound good. I've got the 626 with a pair of 70's on my fronts. I think they sound alright, i tried the S50 and the S70s in richer sounds before i bought mine and i was 'content' with the sound, i know i can get much better, and in the future i may upgrade, but for now, it beats my panasonic all in one system i was using.
 
wez130 said:
I still think sound is subjectional, it's down to what you're happy with, i'm no audiophile,but i like stuff to sound good. I've got the 626 with a pair of 70's on my fronts. I think they sound alright, i tried the S50 and the S70s in richer sounds before i bought mine and i was 'content' with the sound, i know i can get much better, and in the future i may upgrade, but for now, it beats my panasonic all in one system i was using.
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Sound certainly is subjective ;) I don't think anyone needs to be an audiophile in the strictest sense of the word though to know the difference between bad, okay and better sound.

In the end it's each to their own. You bought new. I think famasfilms has bought all second hand except for the S50. Two different approaches, and I think it changes things. Settling for "alright" with a view to upgrading at some point in the future is one approach. Taking the opportunity to try different solutions from the s/h market and perhaps get a better package for a similar or lower investment is another. Each has it's merits. Whichever method works, it's important to have fun. :D
 
I can take the S50 back to Richer Sounds within the next 14 days so that's not an issue.

I've just moved out of a £275 per month house share to a one bed place so my rent has more than doubled, hence going the gumtree route.

Just looking on ebay there's there Q95c and the Q9c, which one is better?
 
9c has better specs. Deeper bass, larger cabinet, bigger driver I think, heavier over all as well.
 
lucid said:
Sound certainly is subjective ;) I don't think anyone needs to be an audiophile in the strictest sense of the word though to know the difference between bad, okay and better sound.

In the end it's each to their own. You bought new. I think famasfilms has bought all second hand except for the S50. Two different approaches, and I think it changes things. Settling for "alright" with a view to upgrading at some point in the future is one approach. Taking the opportunity to try different solutions from the s/h market and perhaps get a better package for a similar or lower investment is another. Each has it's merits. Whichever method works, it's important to have fun. :D
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I didn't buy my speakers new. I tested them in RS then went S/H. I got them for £90. I wouldn't have paid £229 for them anyway, i'd have stayed S/H for £229 too. i just needed something to listen to music on my onkyo, something of a stop gap until i have the means to upgrade my speakers.
 
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wez130 said:
I didn't buy my speakers new. I got them for £90, i just needed something to listen to music on my onkyo lol.
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Ah, sorry. I misunderstood your post. Still, that doesn't change the situation regarding the relative performance of the speakers though. The KEFs were pitched £100-£150 more than the S70s. With budget floor-standers every penny counts. So an extra 30%-50% makes a big difference to the manufacturing and materials budget.

I'm not a big fan of the older KEF sound myself. But IMO the new Q series are very very good. However, I'd still take the s/h Q3's over the s/h S70's, and even more so when there's almost nothing in it in price. :D
 
what would you do with the s70s if you were me?

At the moment I have them as the side rear L/R, in my new living room there is no shelving options to have satellites/bookshelves at the right height without buying new furniture..hence going for floorstanders. I also have a pair of LG floorstanders as the surround back L/R for the same reason - they look as if they were part of an LG 5.1 dvd and surround package.
 
If you can pick up more KEF Q3 then sell the S70s. You don't live near Whitchurch in Hampshire do you? wez130 likes S70s ;)

In the meantime they'll work okay as side or rear speakers, or even as front speakers though not as nicely as the KEFs.

The LG ex all-in-one speakers would be a bit of a worry. A lot of this type of speaker have a very low Ohms rating. 3-4Ω isn't uncommon, although I have seen as low as 2Ω. Anything less than 6Ω has the potential to suck a lot of power from an amp designed for 6-8Ω loads. The risk is shorting out or damaging the amp's output transistors. If the speakers are rated at fewer than 6Ω then just be careful with the volume until you can find a suitable replacement pair.
 
I'm not going to write out what Ohms means.... Google is your friend. Just remember, not enough ohms for your amp is a bad thing. That'll do ya.
 
I just looked up the specs of the Q95c and the KEF site says "Nominal impedance: 4 ohms" does that mean it's a bad choice for the 626?

Manual says the 626 is:
• 95 Watts/Channel @ 8 ohms (FTC)
• 160 Watts/Channel @ 6 ohms (IEC)
• 175 Watts/Channel @ 6 ohms (JEITA)
 
because there's more 95c's going second hand than 9c's

And the discussion has now shifted from merely talking about quality to "using the wrong speakers could potentially fry your amp", which is entirely a new subject for me
 
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The centre speaker is the most important speaker in a surround setup so go for quality. I replaced my KEF iQ2c centre with a GXC150 and couldn't believe how bad the old one was - vocals are much more intelligible at low volume and much better balanced.
 
This is from the manual for the 626 - so presumably using 4 ohms speakers is ok as long as I configure the amplifier accordingly...Also presumably whilst it's ok it's not ideal as the higher impedance speakers will not be being pushed as hard as a result?

(European, Australian and Asian models)
You can connect speakers with an impedance of
between 4 and 16 ohms. If the impedance of any of
the connected speakers is 4 ohms or more, but less
than 6 ohms, be sure to set the minimum speaker impedance to “4ohms”

If you use speakers with a lower impedance, and use the amplifier at high volume levels for a long period of time, the built-in protection circuit may be activated."
 
famasfilms said:
This is from the manual for the 626 - so presumably using 4 ohms speakers is ok as long as I configure the amplifier accordingly...Also presumably whilst it's ok it's not ideal as the higher impedance speakers will not be being pushed as hard as a result?

(European, Australian and Asian models)
You can connect speakers with an impedance of
between 4 and 16 ohms. If the impedance of any of
the connected speakers is 4 ohms or more, but less
than 6 ohms, be sure to set the minimum speaker impedance to “4ohms”

If you use speakers with a lower impedance, and use the amplifier at high volume levels for a long period of time, the built-in protection circuit may be activated."
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most modern speakers are at least 8ohm. by having less resistence (measured in ohms), your amp can drive the speakers more efficiently i.e. louder.

lets use a typical range as an example. KEF Reference 201/2 (something im familar with) rated for 50w to 150w, average imp 4ohm.

so lets take a look at top end. 150w. it means at 4 ohm, if your speakers can take 150w and it will hit it's maximum loudness. so let say you have an amp that can pump out 200w at 4 Ohm and you decided you will have a party in the park by turning on the amp to maximum power (which is 200w), then the KEF will burn out first.

now lets take a look at the lower end (50w). just imagine the speaker cone is a spring. a speaker makes noise by having current going through it and overcoming the resistence hence making the cone move/make a sound.

imagine your fingers are the electric current. you apply a force on the spring to make it compresses i.e. moving the speaker cone. now imagine the spring is actually one of those super thick ones from a rally car suspension. all of a sudden your finger doesnt have enough force to compress it. you can try harder and harder, but it ends up hurting you because the spring wont move. now think of the speaker and amp. if the amp doesnt send enough current to the speaker cone (spring), then it wont move. and as we know, any energy not being converted to sound will turn into heat, and thats the heat that builds in the capacitors/regulators of the amp, over time, the cap will blow i.e. end of your amp.

ok, those are some extreme cases. from my experience unless you are turning up the speakers to 100+dBA. you really dont need more than 70w per channel at 8ohm for bookshelf, or 90w for floorstanders. (some of the most high end tube amp is rated at 15w per channel, but those are very extreme).
 
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famasfilms said:
because there's more 95c's going second hand than 9c's
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Yeah, that happens when there's a better quality and more expensive speaker versus a cheaper poorer one. The better quality gear is in shorter supply :D

It's worth hanging out for the better speaker, otherwise you might as well sell the KEF Q30 and just stick with the CA front three.

famasfilms said:
And the discussion has now shifted from merely talking about quality to "using the wrong speakers could potentially fry your amp", which is entirely a new subject for me
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True. But you'd already been given a rough guide on running a low ohms speaker based on what you were doing with the LG rear surrounds. So it's a bit puzzling why you'd then go ahead and look at centres that have the same issue.
 
lucid said:
Yeah, that happens when there's a better quality and more expensive speaker versus a cheaper poorer one. The better quality gear is in shorter supply :D

It's worth hanging out for the better speaker, otherwise you might as well sell the KEF Q30 and just stick with the CA front three.

True. But you'd already been given a rough guide on running a low ohms speaker based on what you were doing with the LG rear surrounds. So it's a bit puzzling why you'd then go ahead and look at centres that have the same issue.
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I won the ebay auction for the q95c at 3pm yesterday - it was the q95c / q9c auction that ended the soonest and with p&p it was still £20 cheaper than the S50, I didn't want to overlook that one and wait for q9c which could well get driven up further in the final few mins of bidding.

The whole discussion about ohms didn't start until yesterday evening. I'm aware it's not ideal but oh well
 
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