Kingston Fury Beast & AMD user question

[Moonfly]

Is anyone else using the same combination as me for an AM5 build? Ive put my config in my sig for convenience.

I can't get AMD EXPO to work at all despite the motherboard stating it is supported, and I have had a couple instances of the system failing to post properly. A reboot has always fixed it but Ive never had a build show that sort of issue before and it's bugging me a fair bit. I've also had a couple of blue screen incidents as well.

Just as an FYI, CPU is running at 4.8Ghz so only a small boost in speed there. I also used the AI software to manually set a 1.25v SOC limit for obvious reasons. RAM was initially run at stock speed but is currently using DOCP to run it at 5600 speed. I can't really tell a difference from a reliability point of view between the stock or boost setting on the RAM but I still had both issues occur at both speeds so I don't think the boost itself is to blame.

I have seen reports on YT of RAM that is not AMD certified potentially causing issues with post reliability etc so Im wondering if I should swap out the RAM. It's the only thing I can think of that might be causing these sorts of problems.

Any comments welcome.

 

[Moonfly]

I see 64GB, is that 2 x 32GB? Is it on the QVL for your motherboard? Does it show any 64GB kits working at that speed? Is it EXPO RAM? I have 2x16GB of 6000MHz EXPO RAM that is on my motherboard's QVL and that works fine with EXPO on, a friend has a similar set up and no issues, also 2x16GB.

• Yeah its a 2 x 32Gb kit.
• Ive not checked the QVL but I bought it from Overclockers based on the item description which stated it was AMD EXPO certified, something I have now disputed.
• The kit should run at up to 5600 which is does, but the speed isn't the concern so much as the stability of it. Speed doesn't seem to make reliability better or worse as far as I can tell. Ive seen content creator videos stating that none certified RAM can cause random stability issues.

EXPO simply doesn't even show up as an option in the BIOS, and I updated to the latest version of that when I put the system together. Being outside of 14 days I have been refused any sort of swap out for more suitable RAM which is really disappointing and will leave me out of pocket if I end up having to replace this RAM, hence trying to get some additional input. I wouldn't mind but I chose the RAM based on the website listing after looking at a lot of products, and I generally don't like the RGB stuff either, so that's also a kicker.

EDIT: Ive now checked the QVL and it seems that despite the website listing the RAM as AMD EXPO certified and my motherboard supporting EXPO profiles, the board doesn't support it on this specific part number. It is beyond infuriating that after checking everything except the QVL, everything but the QVL said this should work fine. I find it baffling that an EXPO-certified product paired with an EXPO-certified motherboard can lead to a scenario where the 2 are not compatible. Just one more thing to keep an eye out for in the future I guess.

 

[Moonfly]

Sounds a bit odd, mine gave me a choice of EXPO1 or EXPO2 to choose in the BIOS. Has an "AMD EXPO" sticker on the Kingston packaging.

Ive now checked the QVL. My ram had an AMD logo on it but did not have the AMD-certified sticker. The webstore listing however did state it was AMD EXPO certified (thought Kingston themselves don't make any mention of this as far as I can find, so I don't know why its on the Overclockers webstore item description text. The QVL says no EXPO supported so despite Overclockers telling it as AMD Expo certified and my having a motherboard that it EXPO certified, I cant run EXPO on this specific RAM kit with the specific motherboard.

Im really frustrated with it to be honest, had the store listing not said EXPO certified I would never have purchased the product, and even more annoying is that I cant find that the manufacturer have ever claimed its EXPO certified either, so I don't know where they got that from to be honest. The final nail in the coffin is basically being told to do one because its outside of 14 days but the fact of the matter is that it took me longer than the 14 day window to spot the issue as its fairly niche.

 

[Moonfly]

I'm sure if it's being advertised as EXPO when it isn't something can be done to get it exchanged for you.

I thought so too, but Im basically being told to go whistle because its beyond 14 days. Maybe it can run EXPO on certain motherboards but that isn't specified and actually, it was listed as EXPO Certified, and I cant find anything to back that up at all. The manufacturer's own website and datasheet make no mention of AMD EXPO Certification at all and don't actually talk about it in the context of AMD at all. Suffice to say the solid reputation I thought OC had is severely tarnished from my perspective, Im sorry I purchased from them at this point.

 

[Moonfly]

Can you tell me the exact part number (Kingston)?

If you do have an XMP 3.0 kit, then XMP is still supported by the vast majority of boards, can you take a screenshot of the SPD data from CPU-Z?

Are you using the latest BIOS from Asus?

Im not using the latest BIOS as that one is the BETA one and after speaking with ASUS they told me not to use the beta version. Im using the most recent non-beta version.

KF556C40BBAK2-64 - that's the part number

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-f-gaming-wifi-model/helpdesk_qvl_memory/ - Thats the QVL list showing this particular RAM doesn't support EXPO profiles

https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF556C40BBAK2-64.pdf - that's the data sheet for the RAM which only advertises Intel Certification for XMP profiles and doesn't even mention AMD at all, though the timings are consistent with what you will see for AMD certified RAM products and the packaging does include an AMD stamp. This leads me to believe it is designed to be AMD compatible but is not AMD certified because it cannot run AMD EXPO profiles. Ive no idea if there are further implications to what it cannot do in an AMD build but the issues I have seen are consistent with problems with installed memory.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/king...l-channel-kit-kf556c40bbak2-64-my-29v-ks.html - this is the website product listing, the exact one I purchased, which clearly states the product is AMD EXPO certified. It was on this claim I made the purchase. IMO this is an error with the listing as I cant find anything to back up the sales description of this product being EXPO certified.

I've asked OC retail support to send me a link to where Kingston have stipulated this product is EXPO certified but have not yet received a response to this. I suspect they wont be able to provide one but we shall see, maybe they can.

My situation now is that I have asked for this to be addressed and they have point blanked and refused to do anything about it based on it being beyond 14 days of purchase. It took me more than 14 days to realise this discrepancy and raise the issue, so Im stuck between a rock and a hard place because the legislation does not protect me beyond the 14 day period and Overclockers retail support don't seem to care that I bought a product based on what seems to be false information within their product description, which again I have asked for clarity on and this has yet to be provided. Its frustrating because I spent a number of weeks trying to make sure I selected all the right components for my build, and to say Im a bit sour about the whole thing is somewhat of an understatement.

I guess the moral of the story is to check the QVL to be 100% certain, and not to trust the listing, something I thought I could do. In the meantime it appears my options are to take further action at my own cost, let it go and hope this RAM is fine and firmware updates will clean up the slight issues I seem to have been experiencing, or put up another £200 ish of my own money to replace it at my own expense. This build was a circa £1500 upgrade from an older Intel build so the thought of spending another £200 to fix this issue really doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Moonfly]

Asus B650E-E mobo here, si same/similar bios

When you enter BIOS ( in non advanced ) there is a selection box here :

What options does it give you ?

I'm running non EXPO ram with no issues.

The only options it gives me are for DOCP profiles. Ive used these to boost the RAM to the stated 5600 mhz so it will run at that speed, confirmed in both the BIOS and in CPU-Z.

My major gripe is that the product is sold as AMD EXPO Certified, but I question how it possibly can be. In an effort to try and find some motherbards that would run EXPO with this RAM and an AM5 chipset I did a quick search last night.

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileL...220830.pdf?v=45d7b86e5b4b7abfc245fd9e1a7b9c4e - This was my first search result, same thing, not listed as possible to rn EXPO profiles.

So I did another search:

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-crosshair/rog-crosshair-x670e-hero-model/helpdesk_qvl_memory/ - Once again EXPO will not run with this motherboard. So now Im 3 for 3 with a 100% hit rate on motherboards where this supposedly EXPO certified RAM will not actually run EXPO profiles at all.

Overclockers have confirmed they copy pasted their information from the Kingston webshop listing, so to be fair to OC the mistake isn't really theirs, though they clearly haven't checked the information, but then they shouldn't have to. Ive sent them the same information above and asked if we need to take this back to the manufacturer. I bought the product based in no small part on the EXPO certification and the same with the motherboard, and I find it pretty amazing you can purchase supposedly EXPO-certified RAM and put it on an EXPO-certified motherboard and end up in a situation where EXPO profiles are not supported.

The EXPO certification is obviously the curve ball that caused me to not spot this until after the 14 day pay, and this is where Overclockers and I fail to see eye to eye as they completely refuse to do anything about it at all. I'm quietly livid about the whole thing to the point I doubt I will ever spend my money with them again. Still, I am where I am and the failure to post and blue screens have only been like a once per week thing so I haven't been too worried about it, but still, never had so many occurrences, I think I had it happen maybe twice in a little over 3 years on my previous build, Im already like 5x that with this one.

I note the comments on the immaturity of AM5 sockets and X3D CPUs and I am also considering that, but in a case like this you want to work to rule out possible or probably causes, and with evidence online that XMP optimised RAM can cause issues in AM5 builds I would like to get the RAM changed out for something that definitely does run properly. Overclockers refuse to accept there is any issue or do anything about this so my options are to purchase alternative RAM separately, or try escalate it further independently. Im currently collecting more information, which may include having to go through every motherboard product on the market because if I cant find any that will run EXPO profiles with the RAM then the claims of EXPO certification must be false.

 

[Moonfly]

Yes, you're correct. That's an intel XMP 3.0 kit with XMP profiles, designed for an Intel motherboard. Usually, AMD AM5 boards will work fine with XMP memory, they were working even with pretty early BIOS.

According to NEMO this Intel certification is irrelevant and doesn't mean this kit is optimised for Intel at all, only that it has been certified to work with Intel XMP. When I pointed out that this product is listed as certified to work with EXPO, yet the packaging and sped sheet seems to state otherwise, Nemo basically politely suggested I didn't know what I was talking about.

I suspect that OCUK have just copy-pasted the description, because Kingston Fury IS XMP and EXPO certified, as a brand, but I'm not aware if it is possible to support both XMP 3.0 and EXPO on the same stick.

I have yet to see a single product that carries both Intel and AMD certifications on the packaging. This is something I took up with OCUK but to be frank, they couldn't give a monkeys and have told me there is nothing they can do, which isn't true, they could if they wanted to bu they just don't want to. I used to work in e-commerce retail so I am fully aware of how this sort of thing works and how relationships with suppliers and manufacturers is. If Kingston wont do anything its not a brand I want to use either, but as far as I can tell OCUK haven't even contacted them. I think OCUK are just hoping I will go away to be honest, which I fins unsatisfactory.

It's hard to tell with AM5 really, there still seems to be a lot of BIOS immaturity and stability issues, with different settings applied across different boards (and manufacturers), even with the exact same RAM.

Yeah I understand and appreciate this.

The fact that you have stability issues with it running stock or DOCP enabled and you've had BSODs could be suggestive it's not actually the RAM, or that the RAM is just faulty.

Ive yet to run a RAM test so Ill do that this evening. If there is a fault at least I could return it under warranty, but Im pretty certain that OCUK will force a like-for-like replacement.

I'm not convinced that they know how to handle the X3D CPUs properly yet, either, as you already know (with the SOC limit) and 32GB modules are less common, which could be another issue.

Ive seen some 24 Gb modules appear now, Im thinking of changing out to those as I only really need 32 Gb for gaming and the only reason I went with 64 was for the peace of mind afforded by having lots of headroom. 48Gb would still be plenty of headroom anyway. Im looking at my options.

True, but they do say it supports XMP and runs at the rated speed (5600), rather than stock (which is what it would say, if the memory didn't work), so my interpretation of the QVL is that this memory has been tested in the board and there were no problems found.

The QVL does specify whether XMP, or EXPO is or is not on the certification though. In this case, those motherboard clearly does not certify this RAM part for EXPO. In doing a couple quick searches the next 2 motherboard I looked at didn't support it either. My next step will be to get a full list of all the motherboards available on the market and check each and every one of them to see how many will actually run EXPO and how many wont. IMO, at least half need to run it if Kingston want to claim this as an EXPO-certified product.

Im still waiting for a reply form OCUK on this, but if they begin to just ignore my emails, as a suspect might happen, I guess I will need to go to the manufacturer themselves to get their view on it.