Knives and Knife Sharpeners - bit of wisdom needed

b.cummins · 8 Mar 2016 at 14:59

So after the success of getting some great advice from the OcUK amateur and professional chefs on pots and pans I've decided to tap into these abundant resources again, this time looking at knives and sharpening.

First off, I know there have been a lot of threads about this as I have searched through them and I've used advice given on this forum in purchases I've made before and been reasonably happy to date. But now I want to get to the next level. So a few clarifications about my current situation:

I do not want to use wetstones or sharpening steels. I know if I developed the skill it would eliminate most of my issues but I just don't have the confidence to learn it on my own nor do I have someone available to teach me.
I currently own 6 knives and am only precious about 2 of them. The two I can't fathom replacing are my global cheese knife and global 18cm fluted vegetable knife. Oddly enough, my 2 other globals; a 20cm chef's knife and small turning knife I'm not fussed about. I find the chef's knife uncomfortable for long periods (although the vegetable knife feels fine) and the turning knife I can't sharpen as it is curved. I also have a 9cm wusthof utility knife I've never been able to resharpen well and a rubbish cheapo bread knife.
I currently use a minosharp plus 3 ceramic sharpener that I've been able to use effectively to maintain or at least slow the declining sharpness of my global knives.

Based on these factors I would like to keep my Global Vegetable Knife (and cheese knife although this doesn't need sharpening) and expand my collection in another (ideally single) range. I also want a decent idiot-proof sharpening tool and am leaning towards an electric sharpener. I have been to the shops and have found that the Wusthof classic trident and I O Shen range of knives have the right feel and comfort to me.

In my research and again, based on your experiences I have decided there are 3 options:

Option 1
Invest in a range of Wusthof knives (chef/bread/paring or utility)
Invest in either this work sharp tool that has been talked about here before, and continue to use the minosharp for my remaining global or this electric dual angle sharpener

Option 2
Invest in a range of IO Shen knives (chef/bread/paring or utility)
Invest in either this electric sharpener or this one. Again I know the first one I've linked to has been talked about on here and people like it, but feel the edge could be a lot more polished and it seems the second one I've linked to has a finer honing stage.

Option 3
Forget about globals altogether (except cheese knife) and replace with all German knives and get this which is apparently the bees knees for western knives or maybe the work sharp.

Oh I forgot Option 4
Get back in my box.

So any opinions, recommendations and elaboration most welcome. Or have I got the combination of things completely wrong?

joey1211 · 8 Mar 2016 at 15:07

I'd get a wet stone and a cheap knife. Use it until your unhappy with it's sharpness and then practice on it. Plenty of guides on youtube. The only electric sharpener I've used was on the back of an electrical tin opener. The noise it made put me off ever using it again.

Craig321 · 8 Mar 2016 at 15:25

I love my Lansky diamond kit. I'll use that to put a 'correct' edge on it, then just hone with the steel every so often. Very easy to use as well - you can't really go wrong with the way it guides you to sharpen at the right angle.

Pho · 8 Mar 2016 at 17:43

Watch a few YouTube videos, whetstone's are actually quite easy to use and you can "feel" when you have the angle right.

I recently bought this sharpening rod and this whetstone, both highly rated. Pro tip: use Google translate + http://www.knivesandtools.nl and pay with PayPal and you'll save about £15 (at least I did due to the euro exchange rate). It shipped from Germany and turned in up a few days

.

Illgresi · 9 Mar 2016 at 02:24

I can fully understand your trepidation when it comes to using a whetstone. I had exactly the same thoughts when I bought my first Japanese blades with a carbon steel core. "Will I be able to take care of them". Well, I guess it's like having a puppy (maybe a child I wouldn't know), you learn. It doesn't really take that long either. You see, when I bought my most recent knife I knew that it had stainless steel sheath, around a carbon steel core. That carbon steel core is harder, but it's more rigid, and rusts. But it's worth it, because you won't get a better cutting edge.

The point is, anyone who's interested in knives (and therefore whose opinion is important) won't give you information about which knife block from Amazon is the best.

You say you have Globals, and I do not at all blame you for wanting to change. I'm not sure what you mean by your fluted veg knife, but I'm working with the assumption it's a scalloped semi-santoku. Plus, a small paring knife type. Personally, that would probably be enough for me, had it not been Global. Since it is Global, I feel the need to help you out a bit ( in case you didn't realise, I hate Global).

In my opinion, everyone who decides that they need a knife, needs only one knife. What we call a chef knife. There are plenty examples. A Classic Wüsthof or Henckels will probably do you well. Myself, I'm a fan of Japanese blades. Answer these questions:

1. How much effort do you want to put into your knife?
2. How do you hold your blade? e.g. pinch, scalpel, hammer
3. Is your knife a tool or a matter of pride

When you answer those questions, you will know yourself what kind of knife is the one for you. From experience however, I would suggest that you don't go longer than 24cm. In fact, my own is 218mm and I feel it's on the large side.

Again, my blade requires a whetstone to sharpen. I found that a little intimidating to deal with initially, but I got right into the groove. I'm sure you will too if you go for a carbon blade. In fact, it's almost a badge of honour; I sharpen my own knives...

s452 · 9 Mar 2016 at 02:32

start with a cheap dual sided wetstone + cheap knife and a lot of practice sharpening, the time you invest will be worth it as it will be better than almost all knife sharpeners once you get the hang of it (and you have all the stones you need)

chipperhead · 9 Mar 2016 at 08:05

I have the Knife Wizard KE198, does a fantastic job.
I'm aware it won't get an edge like a westone but personally I'm not interested going down the manual sharpening route.

b.cummins · 9 Mar 2016 at 08:47

Thanks guys for the replies so far! I am enjoying the stone sharpening purists who are chiming in despite my stated position of not wanting to go down that route... I totally get it and I would love to, but I know I could end up spending money and investing in learning but ultimately falling short and giving up, it's not the sort of thing I can learn remotely without physical engagement so I'm not going to pursue it. With regards to blades, I think I'm definitely set on Japanese and looking at IO Shen, seems to be a lot of happy electric sharpener users with this range.

ganesh · 9 Mar 2016 at 11:32

I have the KE-198 and use it with my globals, and I'm very happy with it. It won't give you a razor sharp edge, but will give you a nice sharp working edge. Make sure you pick up a steel to hone and prolong periods between sharpening, I use a ceramic rod.

I tried the whet stones and gave up, and the minosharp ceramic Wheele things are terrible, they just hone your knife rather than sharpen and are difficult to clean, so after 2-3 months are effectively useless.

Jolteh · 9 Mar 2016 at 13:27

With regards to sharpening, I think the Edge Pro/Lansky systems are the best compromise for enthusiast cooks. You basically get all of the advantages of a whetstone, without any of the need for learning another skill.

I'm using an Edge Pro copy that I picked up off Amazon for about £15 and it does what I want it to. I bought a higher grit stone to get a better edge, and I got it sharp enough to shave the hairs on my arm from the second time I used it. Apparently it's even better if you buy a couple of genuine Edge Pro stones so I might try that also.

I know there's a few guys on here that use Lansky sharpeners too. That might be an option if you don't wanna resort to buying a chinese copy.

On that actual knife front, I still think Victorinox Fibrox are hard to beat if you want an actual tool, although admittedly they aren't the most attractive knives. I'm quite interested to try a Misen though.

b.cummins · 10 Mar 2016 at 09:26

Jolteh said:
Jolteh speaks

The sage returns! Seriously thanks so much for your input on my other thread; spot on.

Jolteh said:
With regards to sharpening, I think the Edge Pro/Lansky systems are the best compromise for enthusiast cooks. You basically get all of the advantages of a whetstone, without any of the need for learning another skill.

I'm using an Edge Pro copy that I picked up off Amazon for about £15 and it does what I want it to. I bought a higher grit stone to get a better edge, and I got it sharp enough to shave the hairs on my arm from the second time I used it. Apparently it's even better if you buy a couple of genuine Edge Pro stones so I might try that also.

To be honest I want to invest in this and get it right. I've now looked into the Edge Pro system and it is universally praised and the genuine article seems to give people the impression that it will last a lifetime. I've found the aforementioned copy and it is very cheap but from reviews it seems that the experience of buying is very hit and miss, so a bit worried about the risk.

Giving due acknowledgement to the rest of contributors to this thread, a few people have said you will get reasonable results with the electric sharpeners. Clearly there is a consensus however that the best edge always comes from stones. That is plainly evidenced enough by the number of purists that always come forward on this subject despite people's reluctance to take it up and I would like to take that on board.

I think the Edge Pro is a genuine compromise for people like us and I think it might be the final option for me to consider. Yes it's more expensive but I am sure I am right when I say that people like me are most definitely willing to pay to have the skill requirement taken out of a task to get real results. I want it to be quick and easy and I am sure the very fact of using stones; albeit in cheat mode, will be satisfying.

Looks like for kitchen knives you only need the basic kit/kit 2 + a polishing belt? Any recommendations? Would also appreciate feedback if you do decide to use the apex stones with the cheaper kit.

Jolteh said:
On that actual knife front, I still think Victorinox Fibrox are hard to beat if you want an actual tool, although admittedly they aren't the most attractive knives. I'm quite interested to try a Misen though.

I've used Victorinox to fill requirements for specialist knives so I know it's a good range. I've always preferred the feel of more expensive chef's knives, though I'd probably be duped by one of those blind tests. The misen looks v.interesting to me as well; in fact, I would bite, funnily enough, for the lifetime sharpening, but I am guessing we would have to send it back to the states to get that service?!

This looks like a beautiful knife, going to head to the shops soon and try it out.

randomshenans · 10 Mar 2016 at 11:12

I know a lot of people who use the IO Shens and really rate them. I might get a new knife, as I feel I'm missing a certain size, and I'll get a Shen.

randomshenans · 10 Mar 2016 at 11:15

In fact, I think I'm going to get the 27cm Chef's knife and the carving knife.

Damn thread.

b.cummins · 10 Mar 2016 at 13:05

Illgresi said:
I can fully understand your trepidation when it comes to using a whetstone. I had exactly the same thoughts when I bought my first Japanese blades with a carbon steel core. "Will I be able to take care of them". Well, I guess it's like having a puppy (maybe a child I wouldn't know), you learn. It doesn't really take that long either.

It really is a huge burden isn't it!

Illgresi said:
You say you have Globals, and I do not at all blame you for wanting to change. I'm not sure what you mean by your fluted veg knife, but I'm working with the assumption it's a scalloped semi-santoku. Plus, a small paring knife type. Personally, that would probably be enough for me, had it not been Global. Since it is Global, I feel the need to help you out a bit ( in case you didn't realise, I hate Global).

Never would've gathered

, for reference it is this one. I can understand why you hate them, but they are a really accessible quality knife. I have been getting along OK with the minosharp too, I can still delicately and finely slice vegetables with relative ease. The chef's knife, however is uncomfortable and I've only recently realised it doesn't lend itself to my knife handling 'skills'.

Illgresi said:
In my opinion, everyone who decides that they need a knife, needs only one knife. What we call a chef knife. There are plenty examples. A Classic Wüsthof or Henckels will probably do you well. Myself, I'm a fan of Japanese blades. Answer these questions:

1. How much effort do you want to put into your knife?
2. How do you hold your blade? e.g. pinch, scalpel, hammer
3. Is your knife a tool or a matter of pride

As little as possible, if we're being honest
Not sure what the difference is?
A little of both, there are a lot of global snubs which has led me to rethink what I am using and the I O Shens are really comfy!

Illgresi said:
When you answer those questions, you will know yourself what kind of knife is the one for you. From experience however, I would suggest that you don't go longer than 24cm. In fact, my own is 218mm and I feel it's on the large side.

I definitely think this one is worth a look, I spotted it after I read your thread and it seems to have shape and function that would work well for me.

Illgresi said:
In fact, it's almost a badge of honour; I sharpen my own knives...

Honestly for the sake of an easy life I can live without that!

randomshenans said:
In fact, I think I'm going to get the 27cm Chef's knife and the carving knife.

Damn thread.

I seem to do this a lot in my threads, sorry! You are just using me as an enabler though, admit it! get them and please feed back to me/the thread on how they are and most importantly, how you sharpen them!