L4D needs a random map generator, among a few other things..

Perfect_Chaos · 4 May 2009 at 08:38

This would make the game almost completely fresh each time, not only do we have random spots for infected but also different map layouts each time!.

Think about it, all they need to do is code it so the game knows where to place the right objects, if there is no door in that certain room and it has a second level then all they do is make the game add a ladder where possible.. repeat for hallways/outdoors and randomize. I think this could be the next revolution in gaming imo.

and the thing i hate about campaign mode is the campers, if 2+ people camp in a closet nothing can stop you except the tank. Some sort of suicide infected that inflicts damage would see to that (boomer variant?)

anyway i think if a sequel is made a random map generator should definately be considered.

opinions?

Spektor · 4 May 2009 at 08:52

The maps are a complete non issue to this game when they have made it so there is only one way to play, sit in a corner / closet and spam melee... no personal flare, no real skill, no tactics. You can take that anywhere.

Not so sure about map generator, coming up with anything remotely like any of the current maps in polish / set piece crescendos / balance from some kind of number seed is way out of the league of any developer. If you ever played Soldier of Fortune 2, you can see what kind of extremely basic things could be achieved going down that route.

But I think the maps should have had many routes to the final destination, sandbox in design, but then randomly had routes sealed off to mix it up abit, definetly giving you a sense of not knowing where to turn next regardless of how many times you had done the map.

mangobreeder · 4 May 2009 at 10:05

Spektor said:
But I think the maps should have had many routes to the final destination, sandbox in design, but then randomly had routes sealed off to mix it up abit, definetly giving you a sense of not knowing where to turn next regardless of how many times you had done the map.

good idea, and the game could block off some predetermined route, so you never really know if the route your taking will be blocked

linktoinsanity · 4 May 2009 at 14:02

Originally back in the early alpha stages, the game had a completely non-linear map which survivors could take in any direction, but the testers got confused (valve's usual tester tallent I s'pose) and lost and frustrated, so the game maps had to be changed. The big city became Dead Air and No Mercy. If we could have that big city map back again, I would find it very interesting to play and see what happened.

Strife212 · 4 May 2009 at 14:03

LinktoInsanity said:
Originally back in the early alpha stages, the game had a completely non-linear map which survivors could take in any direction, but the testers got confused (valve's usual tester tallent I s'pose) and lost and frustrated, so the game maps had to be changed. The big city became Dead Air and No Mercy. If we could have that big city map back again, I would find it very interesting to play and see what happened.

The game would have been infinitely better if it was like this...

FrenchTart · 4 May 2009 at 14:06

LinktoInsanity said:
Originally back in the early alpha stages, the game had a completely non-linear map which survivors could take in any direction, but the testers got confused (valve's usual tester tallent I s'pose) and lost and frustrated, so the game maps had to be changed. The big city became Dead Air and No Mercy. If we could have that big city map back again, I would find it very interesting to play and see what happened.

It'd be nice to have this as an addon for the current game.

Robert1986 · 4 May 2009 at 14:13

LinktoInsanity said:
Originally back in the early alpha stages, the game had a completely non-linear map which survivors could take in any direction, but the testers got confused (valve's usual tester tallent I s'pose) and lost and frustrated, so the game maps had to be changed. The big city became Dead Air and No Mercy. If we could have that big city map back again, I would find it very interesting to play and see what happened.

Wouldn't everyone just end up taking the route that is easiest/quickest? Its like on the first level of no mercy. You can either go straight down past the car or go round the truck and get more items, everyone goes the quicker way.

linktoinsanity · 4 May 2009 at 14:21

^^ probably, but if certain areas ended up randomly getting closed off it may help stop that.

Robert1986 · 4 May 2009 at 14:24

Spektor said:
The maps are a complete non issue to this game when they have made it so there is only one way to play, sit in a corner / closet and spam melee... no personal flare, no real skill, no tactics. You can take that anywhere.
.

I guess you haven't played recently? You can't melee spam any more. Also, sitting in corner/closet isn't always the smartest thing.

gord · 4 May 2009 at 14:24

The main problem with a lot of the map ideas is that one team has to go second.. and the map has to be identical to the first go otherwise everyone would be crying that the director changed the map in someone elses favour.. this basically makes map generation and non-linear map routes irrelevant..

Psypher5 · 4 May 2009 at 14:35

I like it atm but some bits are a bit, odd.

For instance not keeping tank and witches the same spawn points is fine. but when the first teams tank is quite a while after a mini cresendo (dead air when you start the van) and the next teams tank spawns AS YOU HIT THE VAN LEAVER its not toooo fair.

Also instant tanks, when one team gets 400 mollys in the next room and the other team dont. Is not fair.

apeZ · 4 May 2009 at 14:37

gord said:
The main problem with a lot of the map ideas is that one team has to go second.. and the map has to be identical to the first go otherwise everyone would be crying that the director changed the map in someone elses favour.. this basically makes map generation and non-linear map routes irrelevant..

Not really. I see your point, but I think he just meant that in general it is different each time, not necessarily per team.

For example, Team 1 and 2 do No Mercy #1 through method X.

They finish the campaign and decide to do it again.

This time, when they do No Mercy #1, they will have to use method Y, because certain doors/areas are locked off.

Rroff · 4 May 2009 at 14:52

The current anti-melee spam mechanism is annoying and really badly thought out...

An overheating bar style implementation would be loads better - not sure how to explain it simply, but basically each time you melee the bar shoots up, when your not meleeing it drops back down, once it hits a critical level your melee slows down or you can't melee again until it drops below the critical part of the bar.

CliffyBiro · 4 May 2009 at 14:55

Rroff said:
The current anti-melee spam mechanism is annoying and really badly thought out...

An overheating bar style implementation would be loads better - not sure how to explain it simply, but basically each time you melee the bar shoots up, when your not meleeing it drops back down, once it hits a critical level your melee slows down or you can't melee again until it drops below the critical part of the bar.

You try that action repeatedly and so how many you can manage.

Rroff · 4 May 2009 at 15:02

Don't quite get you...

Loads of times I've found the need to melee again mid timer in the natural gameplay flow, without needing to spam it. Being able to hit it 2-3 times without penalty would be great, but to prevent spam theres a progressive cooling off period.

Spektor · 4 May 2009 at 17:16

I don't even think it is really the frequency in which you can melee which is the problem, it is an AoE conal attack that does a lot of damage... I think to keep it as such an OP ability should render it open to being able to teamwound/kill with, otherwise single target / much narrower cone + no damage on it.

Knubje · 4 May 2009 at 17:38

What they could have done, is not be tight asses with the damn SDK, so that some decent mod/map developers could really get their teeth into it...

/thread

hohum · 4 May 2009 at 18:25

LinktoInsanity said:
Originally back in the early alpha stages, the game had a completely non-linear map which survivors could take in any direction, but the testers got confused (valve's usual tester tallent I s'pose) and lost and frustrated, so the game maps had to be changed. The big city became Dead Air and No Mercy. If we could have that big city map back again, I would find it very interesting to play and see what happened.

They already said what happened - people got lost, and when they did find a route to the end they just stuck to that route on future attempts, thus rendering the rest of the map obsolete from that point on.

linktoinsanity · 4 May 2009 at 19:41

hohum said:
They already said what happened - people got lost, and when they did find a route to the end they just stuck to that route on future attempts, thus rendering the rest of the map obsolete from that point on.

Thank you for just repeating what I said back at me. Really adds to the discussion. :rolleyes:

That has already been answered in this very thread with the answer being to possibly add some obstacles in random routes each time.

Knubje · 4 May 2009 at 19:50

LinktoInsanity said:
Thank you for just repeating what I said back at me. Really adds to the discussion. That has already been answered in this very thread with the answer being to possibly add some obstacles in random routes each time.

No I don't think so, originally they had more open maps such with many ways to go but the people who played the game didn't like it and got lost. This meant they removed it from the final game and it's now more linear.