Land registry site maps-Why so useless??

Soldato
Joined
2 Aug 2012
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7,809
As above really.

I am in the process of buying a new (Old) house. It is a old ex-smallholding, and the way in which the original farm was divided up and the way the ownership of the various sub plots has moved around over the last 40 years or so has generated a number of land registry documents relating to the various changes of ownership.

But they are all crude as ****! and none of them seem to line up properly. (Take printouts, superimpose them by holding them together and looking at them on a lightbox or through a sun lit window)

Thick felt tip pen outlines drawn on ancient OS maps that bear little relationship to the current disposition of land or buildings.
Where are the actual measurements and dimensions listed, more to the point. why aren't there any??:confused:

It is like a surveyor presenting a site plan drawn freehand on the back of an envelope, and yet these are the legal documents that define where your legal boundaries are. No wonder people run into boundary problems from time to time.

My cynical/paranoid side (And just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!) is inclined to suspect that this uselessness is actually quite deliberate and is intended to ensure a sufficient stream of doubt and uncertainty to allow Lawyers the opportunity to fleece all parties concerned in potential future boundary disputes. ;)

But really, for something so important. the lack of objective and verifiable detail in these documents, and the process generally, is appalling. Why are they so bad???

(This is only the second time I have bought a property and the last time was a flat, so everything was much more straightforward last time. so this has rather surprised me!)
 
Place we are looking at has an s in the name on the post outside it and on the land registry but every other piece of info has removed the s.
 
Unless you have a determined boundary, the general boundaries rules apply i.e. +/- 1m @ 1:1250 scale. The more modern maps are on the new OS, but some of the older ones are very accurate done my very skilled cartographers.

Some had dimensions but that is the minority and the LR banned the hand drawn stuff about 10 years ago. I know, because we took the Birkenhead office to court for cocking the plans up on registration (we were original owner).

Happy to take a look if you want...I deal with LR plans most days at work.
 
Unless you have a determined boundary, the general boundaries rules apply i.e. +/- 1m @ 1:1250 scale. The more modern maps are on the new OS, but some of the older ones are very accurate done my very skilled cartographers.

Some had dimensions but that is the minority and the LR banned the hand drawn stuff about 10 years ago. I know, because we took the Birkenhead office to court for cocking the plans up on registration (we were original owner).

Happy to take a look if you want...I deal with LR plans most days at work.

Thanks for offer, I think I have it in hand.

I was mainly having a rant about the stupidity of it all.

I reserve the option of contacting you in the future ;)
 
It's both stupid and not, depending which side (of the fence, heh) you're on.

If every land registry plan had measurements on I can only imagine it would create far more problems than it solves as boundaries are sure to vary over time due to nature, replacement of fences etc etc. Would you want to come to sell your house in the future only to find you replaced a fence and stole 5cm of your neighbours land as a result no one will buy your house unless you replace the fence again in the exact correct spot? Didn't think so...

Yes it can be a pain in the type of circumstances you mention, and believe me I've had far worse (matching 200 year old crayon drawings of an entire mountain to try and work out who owns parts of a quarry :o), but the pros of the current system of "vagueness" outweigh the cons in my view on a day to day basis
 
It's both stupid and not, depending which side (of the fence, heh) you're on.

If every land registry plan had measurements on I can only imagine it would create far more problems than it solves as boundaries are sure to vary over time due to nature, replacement of fences etc etc. Would you want to come to sell your house in the future only to find you replaced a fence and stole 5cm of your neighbours land as a result no one will buy your house unless you replace the fence again in the exact correct spot? Didn't think so...

Yes it can be a pain in the type of circumstances you mention, and believe me I've had far worse (matching 200 year old crayon drawings of an entire mountain to try and work out who owns parts of a quarry :o), but the pros of the current system of "vagueness" outweigh the cons in my view on a day to day basis

No, you are just wrong. Plenty (tiny amount in reality) have measurements on and it makes life very easy, trust me, I've been in court with said document and won very easily when going "no it' 38'6"".

As per my post, some of the original maps are incredibly accurate. I've had them matched against GPS mapping to find they were spot on when all they had were chains and measuring sticks. A cartographer was an incredibly skilled job "back in the day" and they knew their stuff. However, at 1:1250 scale (as most maps are) you cannot get down to the cm accuracy.

The idiocy comes when two morons think it's worth going to the lands tribunal (most expensive court in the country) to settle a 6" argument. The only ones that profit from that are the lawyers and the Daily Fail.
 
No, you are just wrong. Plenty (tiny amount in reality) have measurements on and it makes life very easy, trust me, I've been in court with said document and won very easily when going "no it' 38'6"".
.
What's wrong, my opinion ? :confused: I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue.

In 6 years of seeing multiple land registry title plans a day I've only seen a handful with boundary or area measurements on. I maintain that there would be little benefit in the majority of circumstances to having them on.

Older plans are a different matter which of course often had them on.

I know full well how good original cartographers plans can be. I have numerous A1 ones of my village and the mountains/quarries behind it which are more detailed and just as accurate as the current OS maps.

They aren't all though, I've also dealt with many that were just a line drawing with not so much as a scale, north point or any defining features on it.
 
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