Lawful banking

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This is sort of related to the freeman thread yesterday. A large group are trying to set up their own bank called the lawful bank. They want this to go national. The bank will lend money to its customers at 0% for things like mortgages, business loans, buying a car etc.

Do you think they will succeed or will the big banks crush them before they even begin?

I would like to see it succeed but I think the big banks and government will crush them.

http://lawfulbank.com
 
They have no chance because it is a terrible idea filled with gaping holes which even I, unqualified in economics or banking and lending theories, can spot a mile off.

I've just watched some of the video and it's everything I imagined it would be. My word.
 
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0%?

How does that even work?

I don't know exactly how it works but under sharia law the Islamic banks can't charge interest, they make money by other methods, like profit share on the investment.

Islamic banking has the same purpose as conventional banking: to make money for the banking institute by lending out capital. Because Islam forbids simply lending out money at interest (see riba), Islamic rules on transactions (known as Fiqh al-Muamalat) have been created to avoid this problem. The basic technique to avoid the prohibition is the sharing of profit and loss, via terms such as profit sharing (Mudharabah), safekeeping (Wadiah), joint venture (Musharakah), cost plus (Murabahah), and leasing (Ijar).
In an Islamic mortgage transaction, instead of loaning the buyer money to purchase the item, a bank might buy the item itself from the seller, and re-sell it to the buyer at a profit, while allowing the buyer to pay the bank in installments. However, the bank's profit cannot be made explicit and therefore there are no additional penalties for late payment. In order to protect itself against default, the bank asks for strict collateral. The goods or land is registered to the name of the buyer from the start of the transaction. This arrangement is called Murabahah.
Another approach is EIjara wa EIqtina, which is similar to real estate leasing. Islamic banks handle loans for vehicles in a similar way (selling the vehicle at a higher-than-market price to the debtor and then retaining ownership of the vehicle until the loan is paid).
An innovative approach applied by some banks for home loans, called Musharaka al-Mutanaqisa, allows for a floating rate in the form of rental. The bank and borrower form a partnership entity, both providing capital at an agreed percentage to purchase the property. The partnership entity then rents out the property to the borrower and charges rent. The bank and the borrower will then share the proceeds from this rent based on the current equity share of the partnership. At the same time, the borrower in the partnership entity also buys the bank's share of the property at agreed installments until the full equity is transferred to the borrower and the partnership is ended. If default occurs, both the bank and the borrower receive a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of the property based on each party's current equity. This method allows for floating rates according to the current market rate such as the BLR (base lending rate), especially in a dual-banking system like in Malaysia.
There are several other approaches used in business transactions. Islamic banks lend their money to companies by issuing floating rate interest loans. The floating rate of interest is pegged to the company's individual rate of return. Thus the bank's profit on the loan is equal to a certain percentage of the company's profits. Once the principal amount of the loan is repaid, the profit-sharing arrangement is concluded. This practice is called Musharaka. Further, Mudaraba is venture capital funding of an entrepreneur who provides labor while financing is provided by the bank so that both profit and risk are shared. Such participatory arrangements between capital and labor reflect the Islamic view that the borrower must not bear all the risk/cost of a failure, resulting in a balanced distribution of income and not allowing the lender to monopolize the economy.
Islamic banking is restricted to Islamically acceptable transactions, which exclude those involving alcohol, pork, gambling, etc. The aim of this is to engage in only ethical investing, and moral purchasing. The Islamic Banking and Finance Database provides more information on the subject.[29]
In theory, Islamic banking is an example of full-reserve banking, with banks achieving a 100% reserve ratio.[30] However, in practice, this is not the case, and no examples of 100 per cent reserve banking are observed.[31]
Islamic banks have grown recently in the Muslim world but are a very small share of the global banking system. Micro-lending institutions founded by Muslims, notably Grameen Bank, use conventional lending practices and are popular in some Muslim nations, especially Bangladesh, but some do not consider them true Islamic banking. However, Muhammad Yunus, the founder of Grameen Bank and microfinance banking, and other supporters of microfinance, argue that the lack of collateral and lack of excessive interest in micro-lending is consistent with the Islamic prohibition of usury (riba).[32][33]
 
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I don't know exactly how it works but under sharia law the Islamic banks can't charge interest, they make money by other methods, like profit share on the investment.

IIRC with Sharia banking when you take out a mortgage you pay a "rent" on the property bought with the mortgage or something similar.
It's basically semantics, as effectively they are paying interest (which isn't allowed), but because it's all done without that nasty word being mentioned, it's fine.
.

Zero interest banking is pretty much impossible, as there is no way with that short of paying fees (rather like the Sharia fudge) to even cover the costs involved in the administration.
 
IIRC with Sharia banking when you take out a mortgage you pay a "rent" on the property bought with the mortgage or something similar.
It's basically semantics, as effectively they are paying interest (which isn't allowed), but because it's all done without that nasty word being mentioned, it's fine.
.

Zero interest banking is pretty much impossible, as there is no way with that short of paying fees (rather like the Sharia fudge) to even cover the costs involved in the administration.

I agree it's a fudge, but fundamentally it's not about making no profit, as the need to cover costs is understood, but the principle of usury and not making excessive profit.

Also, if your return is directly linked to the success of the investment, then this should promote responsible lending, something that has been severely lacking of late.
 
It's either an absolutely idiotic idea, or a scam like islamic mortgages where the 'interest' is just made in other ways.
 
or a scam like islamic mortgages where the 'interest' is just made in other ways.

Why do you use such a pejorative term like scam to describe just another method of achieving a return on an investment that isn't interest?

Taking into account there are more types of lending than just mortgages.
 
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Why do you use such a pejorative term like scam to describe just another method of achieving a return on an investment that isn't interest?

Taking into account there are more types of lending than just mortgages.

return on an investment = interest
 
Why do you use such a pejorative term like scam to describe just another method of achieving a return on an investment that isn't interest?

Taking into account there are more types of lending than just mortgages.

Because it is interest by any other name. The result is exactly the same.

If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck...
 
If you watch the video on there it starts talking about the bank about 8mins in. He says 0% + a fee. I like how he says the wealthy have the power but realistically the only people who can set up these "branches" are the wealthy anyway.

Edit: I really hope this goes forward. Then when it fails it'll show how hard it is to run a bank and keep it going.

Edit 2: He later says this fee is around 10%...
 
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Because it is interest by any other name. The result is exactly the same.

If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck...

I'm not disputing that they end with the same result, in the main, though I can't see there being any equivalence to our 'payday' loans at thousands of percent.

It's just scam means to trick or swindel, and just because they arrange things in a different way does not mean they are deceiving anyone.

As I said before, it's about the principle of usury rather than the mechanics.
 
I'm not disputing that they end with the same result, in the main, though I can't see there being any equivalence to our 'payday' loans at thousands of percent.

It's just scam means to trick or swindel, and just because they arrange things in a different way does not mean they are deceiving anyone.

As I said before, it's about the principle of usury rather than the mechanics.

To me, arguing over principle, while doing something functionally identical via a slightly different process is either delusional or hypocritical.
 
Usury does not mean interest in general, but excessive and exorbitant rates to make unjust returns. Hence I mentioned payday loans as one example.

So even though the mechanisms of both systems above are designed to make a return, I would think the principle of usury can still be relevant to the mechanics.
 
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