lean bulk, diet/training/general planning advice?

Tefal · 7 Mar 2015 at 17:02

So after dieting for the first bit of the year im quite happy with where i am now in terms of bf, and would like to start adding some more muscle but not a lot of fat.

current stats

79kg
5' 10"

16% bf (from one of the scale machines though not calipers so pinch of salt)

have been eating 2370 kcal since the new year, as 92g fat, 148g carbs, 237g protein (i know this is really high but it was too keep me feeling full land stop me snacking)

i know this needs to go up but i'm not sure what to, and i have read carb cycling is meant to be good for trying to stay lean while bulking, but not sure how to work it all out.

for gym wise the past few months mainly been doing cardio, and the les mils body pump class twice a week.

now i'm planning Monday,Wednesday,Friday strong lifts 5x5, Tuesday/Thursday cardio either rowing machine, swimming or one of the gym cardio classes.

that sound good?

So can anyone help me work out the macro breakdown for say high carb days on the lifting days and the lower carb days for the rest of the week?

and is strong lifts an cardio on its own enough or do it need to be adding in other exercises?

Somnambulist · 7 Mar 2015 at 20:55

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-mistakes.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/macronutrient-intake-for-mass-gains-qa.html/

The above pretty much cover everything.

I wouldn't bother calorie/macro cycling, certainly not on the cardio days anyway - fat gain is inevitable on a bulk and since maint. is never a static figure it can be very easy to end up not really getting a meaningful surplus in if you're obsessing about having a fairy tale all muscle no fat gaining phase. A lot of coaches recommend something like a 3:1 ratio of bulk/cutting for people out of the novice phase, so you might commit to say, 6-9 months gaining and 2-3 months dieting.

Tefal · 8 Mar 2015 at 06:16

i know im going to gain fat its just i dont want to be gaining unessecery extra fat, and dont want the bulk/cut hassle wou;d rather a slow long term plan i can just make routine and forget about really.

Freefaller · 8 Mar 2015 at 09:33

You can do what I have done, but it's taken me years to where I am now, which could have been done quicker with a bulk/cut cycle - but that just isn't of any interest to me.

Tefal · 8 Mar 2015 at 14:11

Freefaller said:
You can do what I have done, but it's taken me years to where I am now, which could have been done quicker with a bulk/cut cycle - but that just isn't of any interest to me.

what did you do? and yeah i'm looking for something i can just make long term as in years, rather than trying to get quick gains then quick fat loss over and over.

just a nice stable healthy lifestyle.

Freefaller · 8 Mar 2015 at 14:14

Train hard. Stopped drinking. Eat well 80% of the time, and allow some treats. Walk rather than drive, make sacrifices on food choices. Train hard. Eat well, which costs a fair bit, but worthwhile. Train hard. Be patient. I've had to take steps backwards, before making progress. Train hard. Even if you feel like crap and you don't want to go to the gym, or you feel lazy (which happens to me all the time) - fight through it. Train hard.

Somnambulist · 8 Mar 2015 at 20:58

Tefal said:
i know im going to gain fat its just i dont want to be gaining unessecery extra fat, and dont want the bulk/cut hassle wou;d rather a slow long term plan i can just make routine and forget about really.

Unecessary fat simply comes from having too much of a surplus, aka the dreamer bulk/fulking. All you need to do is eat enough to fuel your training (and SL 5x5 is pretty low volume btw), recover and have a bit spare your body can utilise for growth - those articles give you some clear outlines about what kind of weight gain per week is a 'safe' range, what kind of intake level to aim for, achievable/realistic results etc.

Cycles of bulking/cutting (if you'd read the articles) needn't be as extreme as your typical IFBB Pro - you don't balloon out in a bulk then diet down to sub 8% bf - you might spend 9 months in a gaining phase and then only need 8 weeks of dieting (and trying to maintain your improved lifts) to get back to being as lean as you were at the start of the bulk, hell you could do a cycle of RFL and get it over in 6 weeks or less, but the fact is the more paranoid you are about fat gain in a bulk, the more chance you have of not eating enough and then spinning your wheels in the gym.

It's different if you're more advanced/nearer your natural limits because the correlation between weight gain and gains on the bar diminishes, but when you're still a 'young' lifter this isn't something that you need to think about as much.

Tefal · 9 Mar 2015 at 09:25

Somnambulist said:
Unecessary fat simply comes from having too much of a surplus, aka the dreamer bulk/fulking. All you need to do is eat enough to fuel your training (and SL 5x5 is pretty low volume btw), recover and have a bit spare your body can utilise for growth - those articles give you some clear outlines about what kind of weight gain per week is a 'safe' range, what kind of intake level to aim for, achievable/realistic results etc.

Cycles of bulking/cutting (if you'd read the articles) needn't be as extreme as your typical IFBB Pro - you don't balloon out in a bulk then diet down to sub 8% bf - you might spend 9 months in a gaining phase and then only need 8 weeks of dieting (and trying to maintain your improved lifts) to get back to being as lean as you were at the start of the bulk, hell you could do a cycle of RFL and get it over in 6 weeks or less, but the fact is the more paranoid you are about fat gain in a bulk, the more chance you have of not eating enough and then spinning your wheels in the gym.

It's different if you're more advanced/nearer your natural limits because the correlation between weight gain and gains on the bar diminishes, but when you're still a 'young' lifter this isn't something that you need to think about as much.

yeah i read the articles they're good very helpful for determining the breakdown etc.

its not so much paranoia is that i want to get stronger, not necessarily bigger and the fat doesn't help really.

my job requires getting in small spaces and there's already some where i get my upper body in with the whole around my chest and i have to suck in/hold my breath work as much as i can then get out and breath as i cant fit in far enough and breath at the same time

but i don't want to get moved to a different job as mine is quite cushy, i usually finish enough time left over for about 3 hours + of breaks a shift lol.

whats the best program for strength training more so than size gains?

mrthingyx · 9 Mar 2015 at 09:51

Just train heavy and don't go nuts with your diet.