Learner driver - any point in manual?

Although I'm attracted by an auto quick (f1 type) changes and economy (additional gears) , I have some trepidation on loss of control with respect to car being in the right gear when I need the power, and, soliciting engine braking too; auto gearboxes like zf which will switch down multiple cogs would help (best in class)
but, for a learner who is trying to master just an auto, they won't know any better and may just think this is a good as it gets, with the gearbox imposing it's personality in the control sequence.

e: summary - so I might tell the learner you will be missing out if you don't learn manual.
 
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I wouldn’t bother if I learnt again. I’ve not driven a manual car since. I don’t even bother with paddles anymore, I swear the car predicts driving better than I do and with dual clutch it beats a human too. Electric cars make it even less worthwhile.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
I wouldn’t bother if I learnt again. I’ve not driven a manual car since. I don’t even bother with paddles anymore, I swear the car predicts driving better than I do and with dual clutch it beats a human too. Electric cars make it even less worthwhile.
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A DCT isn’t really an auto. A good auto probably beats most humans in most situations.
 
This thread highlights my advancing years. I can't believe it'd even be considered to do auto only, unless there were some specific health reasons for it.
Better to learn to drive properly, and have the skill.
 
jpaul said:
Although I'm attracted by an auto quick (f1 type) changes and economy (additional gears) , I have some trepidation on loss of control with respect to car being in the right gear when I need the power, and, soliciting engine braking too; auto gearboxes like zf which will switch down multiple cogs would help (best in class)
but, for a learner who is trying to master just an auto, they won't know any better and may just think this is a good as it gets, with the gearbox imposing it's personality in the control sequence.

e: summary - so I might tell the learner you will be missing out if you don't learn manual.
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It was something I worried about until I'd driven a good auto transmission - while there are some lacking in that respect a decent one these days will react and change incredibly fast like 3x faster than you can react. Most have manual range shifting and/or flappy paddles and D+/sports mode if you want to have more influence on the way it operates. Though I'm not sure in this respect how someone who'd never driven a manual would understand it but I've found you can quickly learn the behaviour of the auto transmission and influence its behaviour by your driving i.e. pre-emptive throttle input or lack of, etc.

D+/sports mode on most auto transmissions will nail engine braking as and when it is needed - some exceptions like VW's DSG where it felt a bit too random and the control unit was obviously doing its own thing.

Most also implement some form of kick-down but I've not really found the implementation that useful on most cars except occasionally when overtaking.

Kind of touching on what Jigger mentioned above - I've not personally been a fan of the VW DSG (at least on like 2008 to 2017 cars) as I find it does somewhat impose its personality and occasionally is slow to react albeit it is only like a second, compared to other type I've driven I do find it seems to be doing its own thing more. But I've found that with VW implementations other than DSG as well.
 
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I’d certainly obtain a manual license, handy just in case, whilst the future is undoubtedly automated in many things, transmissions for sure, I’d rather not be restricted to a manual.

I can’t recall the last time I saw a manual truck for example….


One thing to consider is with older cars especially a failed automobile gearbox is most likely going to effectively scrap it, manuals are by far more reliable and the smaller the car usually the worse the automatic gearbox is.
 
Manual all the way, useful skill to have and keeps options open in the future.
My daughter learnt in a manual, but has an automatic now and she said she wouldn't go back. But, she can still jump in her mums car (manual) and drive if needed.
 
You can obviously get by with an auto licence but it is still quite limiting today and will be for a good few years to come.

For work most places will have manual pool/hire cars, if you ever want to hire a van they'll be manual for a good while yet, same hiring a car abroad anywhere. Being the person who can't just jump in the company van/car to do an errand, or making your colleagues do all the driving on a work trip instantly puts you at a disadvantage.

We obviously don't know her/your financial situation but if she can afford a new car straight after passing her test then fair enough but for most new drivers you'll be in a cheaper car which will massively limit your choice if you can only buy an auto.

No one doubts that auto is indeed the future and is a lot easier to drive and most peoples preference (mine included) but it's not about what's best/easiest to drive day to do its about limiting yourself and your opportunities.
 
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Learn manual and drive automatic. Glad I've learned in a manual and can still drive them but my last 3 cars have been automatics now
 
Hodders said:
My daughter is 17 in about 3 months and has been talking about learning to drive.

Her question - by the time I'm 25 there will be very few manual cars as they will all be electric. Is there any point in taking a manual test?

My reaction is "why wouldn't you?". It really isn't that much harder and just keeps options open.

Thoughts?
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What about her first car? Is it going to be auto? Small insurable autos normally demand a premium.
 
2023 and still well worth getting a full licence imo. Maybe the decision might be more difficult in a few years time, but I still think Manual ICE vehicles will be around into the 2030s
 
Do people really have issues getting distracted by changing gear and having to think about it (beyond their first few weeks of driving)?

I found changing gear becomes automatic (pardon the pun) pretty quickly, so much so that I found it distracting for the first week or so when switching to auto because I had to actively concentrate on not accidentally slamming on the brakes with my left foot when going for the non-existent clutch!
 
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Haggisman said:
Do people really have issues getting distracted by changing gear and having to think about it (beyond their first few weeks of driving)?
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Some people have very poor hand-eye coordination and end up panicking at roundabouts etc because they have "too many" things to do. At least that's what I've heard from a few people over the years who have failed their test several times.

It's easy to bash people like that, but we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Some people have very poor hand-eye coordination and end up panicking at roundabouts etc because they have "too many" things to do. At least that's what I've heard from a few people over the years who have failed their test several times.

It's easy to bash people like that, but we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
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Maybe "bashing" them isn't right, but when those weaknesses have the potential to kill people then I'd argue it's quite wise to call them out on it. You wouldn't want someone with poor hand-eye coordination performing surgery on you, but for some reason it's OK for them to be (only partially) in control of a 2 tonne lump of metal at high speed?
 
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Haggisman said:
Maybe "bashing" them isn't right, but when those weaknesses have the potential to kill people then I'd argue it's quite wise to call them out on it. You wouldn't want someone with poor hand-eye coordination performing surgery on you, but for some reason it's OK for them to be (only partially) in control of a 2 tonne lump of metal at high speed?
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Yes, but most people will persevere and eventually pass their manual test, although they may still be at a disadvantage to those who don't have to think about it and it comes more naturally.

The alternative is to create a different barrier to entry, or get an automatic licence and face some restrictions as per this thread. There are a lot of people who manage to pass their manual test but are still very bad drivers.

In theory, learning to drive manually should make you a better driver, but if the government were so worried about people who can't multitask a bit, they wouldn't allow automatic driving outside of medical reasons etc.
 
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