Legal owner of photographs?

Terrier_Jimlad · 26 May 2015 at 08:41

Morning all, Google isn't been much help as most of the results aim towards copyright of the photos etc so I thought i'd ask you wise lot in here

Scenario is, wife has an affair and is found out, things turn a little sour, but for the children's sake, it's kept amicable and civil to a degree, dad leaves the premises and takes all belongings, which includes a media server/NAS where all of the family/children photos and videos have been stored/backed up to for the past 5 years.

90% of the photos/videos were taken/shot by the dad on his device(s) and theres a few on there taken from her iPhone.

Now the dad is willing to give her a copy of all photos/videos if she stays amicable and civil, however, in terms of who actually legally owns those photos, is it 50/50 between both parents, or does the legal ownership of the photos lie with whoever took the original photo? Is there anything a mum can do to force the dad to hand over a copy etc?

Thanks in advance for your input.

englishpremier · 26 May 2015 at 08:47

Taker of the photograph usually owns the copyright regardless of whether it was taken using equipment owned by the taker, or someone else.

Really though, you'd expect decency to prevail and for the parents to share the pictures.

An Exception · 26 May 2015 at 10:12

I don't know but am interested to know the answer.

I personally think Dad owns the copyright of the pictures he took, and mum owns the copyright for the pictures she took. However I assume there is an absence of any kind of prenup, so I would assume the assets of all this copyright work would all be included in the estate, which is usually divided up equally between the two parties during a divorce. In essence, they both own the copyright to each others pictures as well as their own.

a1ex2001 · 26 May 2015 at 10:58

what a horrible thought process to even have, copy them onto a disk give them to her and be done with it. Potentially using photo's of the kids you've had together as a black mail tool is pretty low stuff.

Steve M · 26 May 2015 at 11:25

As above really. Why does it matter who owns them? Why would the wife have to 'force' the dad to give her copies of photos of her own children. Just make copies for the wife. Sorted.

An Exception · 26 May 2015 at 11:57

@ Alex
You don't know enough about the situation to make such judgements. You may feel a little different if it was your wife who had an affair. If it was you who moved out. If it was your home another man is moving into, with your wife and children. If it was your wife now being difficult. If it was your children potentially being used to blackmail you.

To get back on subject though. Op it is a fruitless endeavour worrying about copyright of the pictures.

Dad has two choices.
1) Hand over the pictures
2) Don't hand over the pictures

If you take option one, copyright ownership won't matter, you'l never get those pictures back.
Dad may take this route if he wants to appeal to cheating wife's kinder nature in the hope her conscience motivates her to be reasonable and amicable. This option has a shelf life though in most cases, as people quickly forget nice things people have done for them.

If Dad takes option two, wife will assume it's war, just with less shouting. Simple give and take, will now become a battleground to be fought over. She may be less accommodating or more vindictive in general.
The winner is usually the one who holds the bigger stick, although it could be argued there are no winners in this situation.

The best option for Dad I think depends on if Dad and his probably soon to be Ex wife are mostly good and trustworthy people. In that case option 1 is the way to go.
If wife is known to lie and be vindictive and generally operate without good conscience. Then option 2 could be employed as part of a wider strategy to build an arsenal of sticks. It is better to never have to use any of these sticks of course. However wife's instinct of self preservation may keep her amicable and more agreeable.

The question really depends on if Dad and wife are generally decent and intelligent people, which one or both have had a temporary lapse of good judgement. Or if Dad and Wife are the kind of people you see on the Jeremy Kyle show.

D.P. · 26 May 2015 at 12:19

a1ex2001 said:
what a horrible thought process to even have, copy them onto a disk give them to her and be done with it. Potentially using photo's of the kids you've had together as a black mail tool is pretty low stuff.

This, let alone I don't think in this scenario the photographer would even have sole ownership since through marriage everything is owned together. It would be an incredibly self lowlife to use photographs as kids as a blackmail tool, and that in itself could have legal ramifications don th road because it would show the judge how unreasonable and thoughtless the father was.

An Exception · 26 May 2015 at 13:10

D.P. said:
This, let alone I don't think in this scenario the photographer would even have sole ownership since through marriage everything is owned together. It would be an incredibly self lowlife to use photographs as kids as a blackmail tool, and that in itself could have legal ramifications don th road because it would show the judge how unreasonable and thoughtless the father was.

That would only be true if Dad was initiating the blackmail. If Dad is himself being blackmailed and using blackmail to counter blackmail, then that is nothing more than self defence.

booyaka · 26 May 2015 at 13:21

D.P. said:
This, let alone I don't think in this scenario the photographer would even have sole ownership since through marriage everything is owned together. It would be an incredibly self lowlife to use photographs as kids as a blackmail tool, and that in itself could have legal ramifications don th road because it would show the judge how unreasonable and thoughtless the father was.

this - just copy the pictures and hand them over. Utterly disgusting to even consider anything else.

Steve M · 26 May 2015 at 13:22

Yeah... I'd refer back to the point made in the second post "you'd expect decency to prevail and for the parents to share the pictures"

lude1962 · 26 May 2015 at 13:58

D.P. said:
This, let alone I don't think in this scenario the photographer would even have sole ownership since through marriage everything is owned together. It would be an incredibly self lowlife to use photographs as kids as a blackmail tool, and that in itself could have legal ramifications don th road because it would show the judge how unreasonable and thoughtless the father was.

I think you'll find the taker of the photo is the copyright holder, BUT any income from the said photos would be shared between man and wife.

Sh4rkie · 26 May 2015 at 15:32

Terrier_Jimlad said:
Now the dad is willing to give her a copy of all photos/videos if she stays amicable and civil

Give her the photos, end of. Children or in this case photos of the children aren't leverage regardless of how the ex acts or how **** things feel right now. Draw a line under it and save your energy for other battles (from the sounds of it).

Andy90 · 26 May 2015 at 16:31

Irrespective of Copyright issues,civility etc., would the Father be happy knowing that someday his Children will be old enough to understand that he had a shedload of photographs of them growing up and didn't share them with their Mother?

How about a compromise?

If the photo shows the children on their own or with a third party (eg Grandparents, uncles/aunts, friends etc) - both get a copy.
If the photo shows both parents - both get a copy
If the photograph shows only one parent - that parent gets a copy

a1ex2001 · 26 May 2015 at 16:52

An Exception said:
That would only be true if Dad was initiating the blackmail. If Dad is himself being blackmailed and using blackmail to counter blackmail, then that is nothing more than self defence.

No that's just lowering yourself to their level, don't let a scumbag make you a scumbag do the right thing and one day your kids will respect you for it even if she never will.

D.P. · 26 May 2015 at 16:53

lude1962 said:
I think you'll find the taker of the photo is the copyright holder, BUT any income from the said photos would be shared between man and wife.

Conventionally yes but the photographs are property and property is also divided equally. No different to if the father purchased a house then the house is joint owned be default, same goes for the camera gear and lenses, an the computer/HD the photos are stored on.

The father probably still has sole copyright ownership but the photographs belong legally to both parties.

Rojin · 28 May 2015 at 20:22

lude1962 said:
I think you'll find the taker of the photo is the copyright holder, BUT any income from the said photos would be shared between man and wife.

Why would it?