Levelling large dips in a lawn

Participant · 30 Sep 2017 at 08:24

Hi all

I have a couple of fairly large lower areas in my front lawn that I'd like to bring up so they're level with the rest of the lawn.

1. Old flower bed the previous owners just put grass seed on without levelling

2. Old path the previous owners just turfed without levelling

Everything I've read online says that for dips this large I should cut the turf, fill underneath, then replace turf. I understand this is so the grass underneath doesn't die? But this will be an almighty hassle compared to just throwing some sand / soil / compost onto the top of the grass.

My question is - so what if the grass underneath dies? Can I not just re-seed the new soil as I'll be top dressing and re-seeding the entire lawn next spring. Then the existing grass will just die and compost underneath right...? If it creates thatch I can just scarify.

Many thanks for any tips.

PS it looks a mess because it's undergoing a fairly vigorous renovation.

radderfire · 30 Sep 2017 at 09:24

If you just fill the hole will soil, it will take a very long time for the soil to get grass on it, if ever, so you will have to stare at mud for a long time.

To create a lawn, you need proper turf, that is why everyone is saying cut the existing turf out, fill underneath, then re-lay. I would use crowd sourced wisdom.

Participant · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:01

radderfire said:
If you just fill the hole will soil, it will take a very long time for the soil to get grass on it, if ever, so you will have to stare at mud for a long time.

Isn't that what grass seed is for? What am I missing here?

radderfire · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:19

Participant said:
Isn't that what grass seed is for? What am I missing here?

I think it would still take a while to get to sufficient density to be nice turf.

I don't see lifting up the existing turf as being that difficult, what's the issue? As with all jobs, you just need good tools.

Participant · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:26

radderfire said:
I think it would still take a while to get to sufficient density to be nice turf.

I don't see lifting up the existing turf as being that difficult, what's the issue? As with all jobs, you just need good tools.

The main issue is I broke my leg last year I still can't yet do heavy jobs. Lifting ~30 m^2 of sods will take ages and roger up my leg. A reasonable alternative seems to be to fill with soil and seed.

Over seeding doesn't take ages; I've done it before and shoots start to show in approx. 10 days. My question is literally that I've just never covered existing lawn with soil and I don't know if this will create thatch problems. Can't find any info on the internet about whether this is a bad idea or not.

M1k3H · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:27

I used grass seed when I used a rotovator to get rid of all the grass and then put soil to level it off. Grass seed is good particularly if the soil is relatively loose. Can you not at least use a rotovator on those sections then out the soil down?

I would then put some pre seed fertiliser and water then leave for a couple of days to compact. Then if needed put some more soil to bring it to the same level as the rest of the soil and put seed down.

Don't forget to go over it do you get good contact, and maybe a little soil on top as well.

PiKe · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:35

I'm not green fingered in the slightest but it's not really the ideal time of year to be seeding grass is it?

Participant · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:36

M1k3H said:
I used grass seed when I used a rotovator to get rid of all the grass and then put soil to level it off. Grass seed is good particularly if the soil is relatively loose. Can you not at least use a rotovator on those sections then out the soil down?

I would then put some pre seed fertiliser and water then leave for a couple of days to compact. Then if needed put some more soil to bring it to the same level as the rest of the soil and put seed down.

Don't forget to go over it do you get good contact, and maybe a little soil on top as well.

Thanks for this. If I put topsoil down before seeding then the soil will be loose, but I'll be scarifying on the lowest setting before seeding anyway. I use a Bosch verticutter AVR1100, which on the lowest setting is sort of like a minor rotavator.

PiKe said:
I'm not green fingered in the slightest but it's not really the ideal time of year to be seeding grass is it?

That's correct, it's nearing the end of the season for it. Grass needs 10 degrees C soil temp to germinate apparently. If I did it right now, I'd probably be fine. But since the lawn looks like dog do anyway, my plan was to level now, kill any weeds that emerge in spring, then scarify and seed next spring.

Yes it'll look like arse for 6 months, but then it's going to look bad anyway and the levelling will have been done ready for spring.

PiKe · 1 Oct 2017 at 12:40

I suppose you could buy fresh turf if you don't fancy looking at mud for 6 months?

Destination · 1 Oct 2017 at 13:39

Fill it in, level it with soil, seed it.
Reseed and fed in spring, it’ll be grand.

Participant · 1 Oct 2017 at 14:18

PiKe said:
I suppose you could buy fresh turf if you don't fancy looking at mud for 6 months?

Don't mind looking at mud for a while, I just don't want to create future problems by burying a load of existing grass. Since nobody seems to think this is a particular problem I think I'll just go ahead and...

Hikari Kisugi said:
Fill it in, level it with soil, seed it.
Reseed and fed in spring, it’ll be grand.

...buy 1m^3 of blended sandy loam from Travis Perkins and do that ^.

Thanks all.

Destination · 1 Oct 2017 at 14:36

Overfill slightly @s there will be some settling of the area, don’t be surprised if you have to add bits in the spring, but i’d do it now, grass has a wonderful way of making its way up

Blackjack Davy · 2 Oct 2017 at 00:37

Participant said:
Isn't that what grass seed is for? What am I missing here?

Because it'll take ages to blend in properly and will stick out like a sore thumb for a very long time it'll be very obvious where the new grass was seeded. However looking at how patchy your grass is to start with one more patchy area probably won't make a huge amount of difference.

toprock · 3 Oct 2017 at 10:32

I had lots of uneven patches in lawn, added compost/sand mix to the low areas, but only gradually, so the grass was still poking through, scattered on every 2 weeks, looks great now, key is not to bury the lawn.

toprock · 3 Oct 2017 at 11:37

PS i'd also say you are cutting the lawn too short, raise the blade height by an inch or so.

Usel · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:30

What you want to do is fine. Just cover the current turf and then reseed. The old rule of thumb to go by with grass seed is to not sow seed in any month without an R in it.

I would tamper down the new soil very very tight and just lightly flick up the top 1/2" with a rake. After about a month to 6 weeks when the seed is up and safe enough to walk on go over the whole lot with a garden fork and spike it all.

topgun06 · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:41

Usel said:
The old rule of thumb to go by with grass seed is to not sow seed in any month without an R in it.

You mean do not sow in any month with an R in it? Surely

Usel · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:46

topgun06 said:
You mean do not sow in any month with an R in it? Surely

No. Generally its too hot and dry in May, June, July and August for seed to grow without daily watering.

All rules are there to be broken and anything will grow anytime with enough fuss and attention.

topgun06 · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:48

Usel said:
No. Generally its too hot and dry in May, June, July and August for seed to grow without daily watering.

All rules are there to be broken and anything will grow anytime with enough fuss and attention.

Ohhhhhh I see, interesting. But then I wouldn't have thought it would have much luck growing in Dec/Jan either.

robj20 · 3 Oct 2017 at 15:57

Nothing wrong with October for seeding grass. Ain't need watering at after the initial sowing, it can take a while to germinate though.