Load bearing wall query

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mjd

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I want to try and establish whether or not a wall on the ground floor of our house is load bearing or not. Well, actually I am sure it for several reasons, but want to know if there is an RSJ in place already. The wall separates our sitting room (front) from our dining room (back). Joists for the first floor run across the top of this wall and the wall runs in the same direction as the ridge of the roof. From what I know of the history of the house, it was built circa 1900 and was renovated (poorly) by the last owner in 2004.
Neighbours have suggested that the last owner moved a lot of the original internal walls.The wall in question is hollow when knocked. I understand that a stud wall can be load bearing, but how can I tell if an RSJ is present?
 
Cut a small hole in the plasterboard, 125mm from from the top, you may see a RSJ, or lift a floorboard above the hollow wall & have a look.
 
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I know the joists run front to back across the top of the wall, as the floorboards on the first floor run parallel to the wall. I have no idea how the wall is constructed though. Presumably assuming the presence of an rsj due to it being a load bearing stud wall is just plain silly :)

There is a dubiously loose floorboard on the landing that seems to line up with said wall so I guess this would be the logical starting point.
In the absence of an RSJ, are there any other methods of supporting the first floor that I should consider/be wary of? i.e If there isn't and RSJ...what should I expect to see :)
 
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If the previous owner was a idiot, he may not have used a rsj.:eek:
So, I would be very careful, I've seen stud walls bowing under the weight, where a rsj hasn't been used, all rather frightening.
 
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I wouldn't go so far as to say idiot, but I would leans towards the idea that the house was a first time project and the standard of finish is/was a little amateurish.
 
If there is no rsj, then you will need to put one in, for the span you mentioned, even more so if there a wall above are built & are sitting on the joists.

Will need professional advice on the size of rsj needed, depending on several factors, load, span, etc.
 
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The stud wall for the bedroom above isn't on top of the wall in question, it's offset by a good 2ft.
Even if I do find an RSJ, I think I'll employ the services of a structural engineer anyway, just to be the sure its up to job and wasn't installed by the aforementioned weekend diy'er:)
 
Whats the wall made of? Have you opened it up to take a look? Take some plaster off and see what it's constructed of, if it's lathes and plaster then its not load bearing, a load bearing stud is not a common thing. Especially in a house that old. It might even be full of straw as it was often used in stud walls of that era.
 
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I was assuming the previous owner had remove the original wall & replaced it with a stud wall, so he could resize the rooms, I'm a bit tired, & a plaster lath wall didn't cross my mind.:o

And we don't know the overall length of the dinning & sitting rooms
 
If you can lift the floorboards above you should see a i beam with the joists notched in, like this

http://www.hdpropertyservices.com/images/gallery4/garage-extension-1-09-2.jpg

Is there a downstand below? With the joists over the top like this.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...cWVH2Gq0ssRXN4_lihlQLAXhS1Tu2ti4l5dXgSICI38pQ

The joists could run front to back no problems. What's the span?

Why are you worried? Does the upstairs bounce or move? If needed you will need a structural engineer to draw you a beam.
 
Does the wall have any openings between the two rooms? If there isn't I wouldnt see any reason for an rsj to be there. Only reason would be if the partition was cosmetic (non loadbearing) you can check also by lifting floorboards on the ground floor to see if there's a sleeper wall directly below. Is timber frame construction common in Wales? I know its not in England, up here its the norm though.
 
could also be a flitch beam in there which are used sometimes to keep the weight down (i.e. easier to handle) but would depend on the span - it's basically a piece of steel sandwiched between two timbers - assuming there are no permissions in place for the alterations?
 
There is a lot to take in there. :)

There are no openings between the two rooms.
No floorboards on the ground floor.
Span is 6.75m approx
Pretty certain it is a stud wall, as there was mention that the layout was adjusted by moving the walls and just tapping around the wall sounds hollow in general.
It hadn't occurred to me that the joists could be running front to back with no support in the middle.
I'll have to cut out a bit of plaster to see whats going on. There's laminate down on all floors in the rooms above so lifting the boards isn't going to be straight forward.
I have no concerns as such, but we are considering removing the wall to create one long lounge diner. We never use the dining room as it is and the lounge could be bigger.
 
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Its a stone semi built 1900.
The wall sounds 'cosmetic', but it would sound as if there is only one way to really know.
I'll try having a word with my 86 year old neighbour. He has lived here from birth and has worked on just about every house in the street at some point in his life.
 
Sat in the lounge the following just occurred to me.

The walls in the house are a combination of dot and dab over brick/stone and stud walls.
Being a bit of a bodger, the previous owner left the screws visible on the skirting on every stud wall. The wall in question has said screws visible on both sides.....so definitely a stud wall :) (I think)
 
mjd said:
There is a lot to take in there. :)

There are no openings between the two rooms.
No floorboards on the ground floor.
Span is 6.75m approx
Pretty certain it is a stud wall, as there was mention that the layout was adjusted by moving the walls and just tapping around the wall sounds hollow in general.
It hadn't occurred to me that the joists could be running front to back with no support in the middle.
I'll have to cut out a bit of plaster to see whats going on. There's laminate down on all floors in the rooms above so lifting the boards isn't going to be straight forward.
I have no concerns as such, but we are considering removing the wall to create one long lounge diner. We never use the dining room as it is and the lounge could be bigger.
Click to expand...

Your span is 23',& being Victorian I would surprised there wasn't a stone wall seperating the two rooms in the past.

Worked on a couple of Victorian houses in north wales nearly 30 years ago, & only the upstairs had stud walls covered with plaster lathes.
All the downstairs walls were stone, that why I thought previous owner had resized the rooms & using a stud wall to divide them.
 
Definitely no stone separating the rooms as it stands now. Neighbours have suggested walls were removed, so perhaps there is some sort of supporting structure above the wall. I'll have to post a few pics.
 
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