Loft Rebuild sanity check

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Hi there

I'm partway through a loft rebuild with a company over to do the work. We're talking ripping off the whole roof and rebuilding it to provide more headroom for an extension.

Broadly I'm really happy with the crew onsite. They seem to know what they're doing and are considerate builders. But I need to sanity check a couple of things.

Firstly, they are connecting the new timber to some of the original eaves (in the front of the house only - where the roof pitch isn't changing). In some cases leaving about a meter of the old joists. Is that normal? I was thinking for some reason they'd remove the eaves joists all the way down, but they say the existing joists are fine, that there's no difference in strength etc.

Secondly, the onsite builders weren't expecting to replace the soffits. I was pretty sure this was in the quote, and remember discussing it with the sales guy, but it turns out that soffits aren't mentioned in the contract. Is this normal? I'd expect the soffits to be replaced if the whole roof is being removed.

In the under-eave storage areas, they are planning to lay chipboard along the existing ceiling joists to offer more height within this storage area. They don't want to board up the inside of the eaves along the roof in the storage area because of airflow. They're planning on airflow to travel from the storage area up into the ceiling etc over the main room. I've asked them to work on the airflow problem and board it because I want insulation (I don't want cold air leaking through the hatches in the dwarf wall) and I also want a neat job in the storage area. Does this seem reasonable?

Any advice very welcome! Thanks!
 
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Connecting the new timber into the old timber is ok for shorter lengths and it will help to brace what is already in place. What are they using for the wall to wall spans to take the additional weight of someone potentially walking around in the rooms you have created? The original roof timbers are only strong enough to carry the weight of the original roof and the associated loadings (read, wind and snow)

No reason why you should need to replace the soffits but then again if you are doing a complete new roof job no reason not to replace them at the same time as well at least then it will all look really nice and new as well. Check the contract and phone the office to clarify and try and sort this now while they are onsite, replacing them at a later date might be more costly.

For the last point read up on cold and warm lofts. It would appear from reading your post you have a cold loft and you need to keep it that way and allow the air flow over the top of the newly created space to allow for any moist air to disperse. If you try and insulate and don't do this properly you will have moisture build-up and condensation in the new rooms. You will need to ensure you don't have any cold bridging into the new space from your cold loft area. It essentially just extends the upper floor of you house into that space and your loft is now the area external to you new rooms.
 
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Connecting the new timber into the old timber is ok for shorter lengths and it will help to brace what is already in place. What are they using for the wall to wall spans to take the additional weight of someone potentially walking around in the rooms you have created? The original roof timbers are only strong enough to carry the weight of the original roof and the associated loadings (read, wind and snow)

Thanks for checking on this. Yes - there's quite a bit of steel braced across the top walls of the house, with timber floor joists attached. The only place that the original ceiling timbers will be walked on will be in the under eaves storage area.
Also reassuring that this connecting to the original timber is OK. Phew!

For the last point read up on cold and warm lofts. It would appear from reading your post you have a cold loft and you need to keep it that way and allow the air flow over the top of the newly created space to allow for any moist air to disperse. If you try and insulate and don't do this properly you will have moisture build-up and condensation in the new rooms. You will need to ensure you don't have any cold bridging into the new space from your cold loft area. It essentially just extends the upper floor of you house into that space and your loft is now the area external to you new rooms.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this. Yep - super conscious of this problem. Will seek to get this ventilated through soffit venting and tile vents where required.

Many thanks for the answers!
 
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I looked into it extensively for the house I am currently living in. It would provide at least 1 additional room to our house with potentially an on suite for roughly half the cost of a decent extension so it was worth considering. Thing is we have a central chimney and would have to look at removing it if we wanted to maximize the space. Not ideal when most of your structural timber holding the existing roof up is built into it. So the cost went up a bit. I am currently in my third year at uni training to be a building surveyor so I think once my fixed rate ends and depending on how brexit plans out we might either go for it or look to finance a move to a slightly larger property or one with the potential to do the same for slightly cheaper. If you go looking for 4 bedrooms house instead of three bed ones you go up a decent notch in price :(

Good luck with the loft rebuild/conversion and keep posting if you get anymore questions, I`m sure there are some slightly more qualified people on here but I will at least try and offer my view as long as you don`t sue me if i get it wrong- at least until I am qualified and have insurance :)
 
Soldato
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you didn't mention it - but presumably you have plans, to check work against, satisfying fire regs, building inspection, plus notifying mortgage company.
 

JC

JC

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Our builders retained some of the existing eaves so I don't think thats an issue. Though in several places they were at least doubled up with new timber.
These were either braced into the new dwarf walls, and/or into the new timbers that were supported by steels at the new ceiling height.

We did not have new soffits fitted, although I would recommend at least getting any wooden soffits and fascias painted if you have scaffolding up already. (unless they are PVC).

Our new eaves are open to the air circulating through the soffits. There is a chipboard floor there over the old timbers. It gives good space but can get quite dusty.
The new internal walls seem to be super insulated and its never cold (in fact its too hot in summer). Make sure you get good quality hatches fitted to minimise any issue with drafts.
 
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Update!

About 4 weeks in, the main subcontractor walked off the project because he had had the last straw with the company - they were messing him about with building materials and putting him under time pressure to cut corners and move onto the next job. He has now taken time off with stress.

I have also been poorly treated as a customer - with requests for information being ignored, sarcastic comments when I've asked for several weeks for issues to be resolved, and have been told that some issues were "Not my problem, it's not my house is it!?"

A week later a new subcontractor crew turned up and moved the project forward. I got building control in to check over the work, and they noticed significant structural problems with the build. Nothing that can't be remedied, but I don't know how much it'll cost.

I have asked (via email) the main company office for a written remedial works plan, but my email has been ignored.

The main office has now asked for more money (to pay for a milestone that has not yet been completed). The subcontractors on site have asked for more money also. I'm refusing to pay because the milestone isn't complete and I have asked again for a remedial works plan and said I will not pay any further milestones until the plan is in place, the work is done and it is signed off by building control.

In a later email the head office has told me to talk to the subcontractor. But I have no written acknowledgement that these issues are accepted by the main office or that they are taking it seriously.

The subcontractor has now (I think under instruction from the main office) contacted me to say they won't be resuming work until the situation is "sorted out". Similarly, I don't want to release any more funds until I have the work done as I don't trust the main office any more. The sub has told me that this firm has form here - they seem to try to bully customers and "every other job" there's a situation like this. I currently have 25% of the money left - and the contractor advised he would do the same in my position.

I intend to offer them reasonable time to produce a remedial works plan (what is a fair timescale?) and if this isn't forthcoming to terminate the contract with them (how do I do this right?), get someone else in to finish the work and charge them for the remedial work to fix the structural issue (I assume this will require legal action). It is very cold in our house now and I really want the gaps closed up and work finished - but we can wait things out if necessary.

Am I going about things the right way here? Any advice gratefully received - thanks in advance!
 
Soldato
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Sorry you’re having a bad time of it.

Don’t pay them any more money under any circumstances. Tell them they’ve got a week to provide a plan otherwise they will no longer be completing the build and you will be pursuing them for the cost of completing the project.

In the interim start to gather quotes from other companies and prepare to go ahead with them. Document everything in a build log. Is this some sort of nationwide “reputable” loft conversion firm that actually just subcontracts everything?

A warning - legal action could well end up costing you more time, money and sanity than just binning the company off and moving on. If it’s a small company they’ll declare bankruptcy and even with bailiffs you’ll have no way to recoup the money owed to you. We found ourselves in a similar situation and it’s horrible.
 

JC

JC

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That's troubling. Sorry to hear.

Agree that your stance seems pragmatic, I'd definitely not sign over more funds.

Suggest you review the contract carefully to know where you stand in this situation, and investigate if you have any legal cover already with your home insurance, otherwise it might be time to get an initial consultation with a suitable legal firm to cover your next steps.

If you had quotes originally from other firms then you might want to see what your options are there. Understandably you don't want to show your desperation, and them taking on the risk is likely to be expensive, but it could give you an idea of the cost threshold to compare against carrying on with the current firm.
 
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Thanks for all the replies.

As an update - an time-limited ultimatum sent on Monday got some attention, but now they've stalled again.

I'm gathering quotes elsewhere. I've got legal cover, thankfully. Initial phone consultations with them were very helpful. Now I need to work out how to transition from one builder to another and all the logistical shenanigans that comes with that.
 
Soldato
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Have you got technical drawings? If not it might be worth getting some drawn up. The reason is that you can be very specific as to what is required from now to the finish. It’ll allow a more transparent quote and let the builders know what you’re expecting.
 
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Have you got technical drawings? If not it might be worth getting some drawn up. The reason is that you can be very specific as to what is required from now to the finish. It’ll allow a more transparent quote and let the builders know what you’re expecting.

Thanks! Yes I do. From the structural engineers and architects.

I did another tour of the site yesterday. Steels on spreader plates, which then are on wood blocks on brick. It's really weird that they did this.
 
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So - more fun and games!

I've been having some legal back and forth and they're working again.

Now I've noticed the angles in the walls aren't 90 degrees. They are meant to be. So in one room (the bathroom) a board measuring 120cm wide has a corner in the corner of the room, but the other corner of it is 3.5cm away from the wall studs. This will absolutely ruin the tiling once everything is plastered. I think it's unacceptable but am being told they'll even out things with plasterboard and battens. Am I being unreasonable to expect they'd put in stud walls that are squared off with each other?

Thanks!
 
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If its a new stud wall there is no excuse for it not to be square, and shouldn't have to be bodged as an after thought.

Ifs its a stud following a pre-existing wall then it should still be square but at least is understandable.

What have building control said about the steel on wood?
 
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Finally the Velux windows are in! I noticed they haven't filled the gaps with expanding foam.

They didn't use a foam collar kit either. Presumably they should at least be using foam, right?
 

Deleted member 66701

D

Deleted member 66701

Ifs its a stud following a pre-existing wall then it should still be square but at least is understandable.


Haha - none of my walls are square in my 1930's build ;) When we had our loft conversion done we found out the rear of the house is 35cm wider than the front!
 
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Finally the Velux windows are in! I noticed they haven't filled the gaps with expanding foam.

They didn't use a foam collar kit either. Presumably they should at least be using foam, right?
Thread resurrection, but did you get sorted in the end mate?
 
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